this post was submitted on 16 Jun 2024
291 points (97.7% liked)

News

23332 readers
2814 users here now

Welcome to the News community!

Rules:

1. Be civil

Attack the argument, not the person. No racism/sexism/bigotry. Good faith argumentation only. This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban. Do not respond to rule-breaking content; report it and move on.

2. All posts should contain a source (url) that is as reliable and unbiased as possible and must only contain one link.

Obvious right or left wing sources will be removed at the mods discretion. We have an actively updated blocklist, which you can see here: https://lemmy.world/post/2246130 if you feel like any website is missing, contact the mods. Supporting links can be added in comments or posted seperately but not to the post body.

3. No bots, spam or self-promotion.

Only approved bots, which follow the guidelines for bots set by the instance, are allowed.

4. Post titles should be the same as the article used as source.

Posts which titles don’t match the source won’t be removed, but the autoMod will notify you, and if your title misrepresents the original article, the post will be deleted. If the site changed their headline, the bot might still contact you, just ignore it, we won’t delete your post.

5. Only recent news is allowed.

Posts must be news from the most recent 30 days.

6. All posts must be news articles.

No opinion pieces, Listicles, editorials or celebrity gossip is allowed. All posts will be judged on a case-by-case basis.

7. No duplicate posts.

If a source you used was already posted by someone else, the autoMod will leave a message. Please remove your post if the autoMod is correct. If the post that matches your post is very old, we refer you to rule 5.

8. Misinformation is prohibited.

Misinformation / propaganda is strictly prohibited. Any comment or post containing or linking to misinformation will be removed. If you feel that your post has been removed in error, credible sources must be provided.

9. No link shorteners.

The auto mod will contact you if a link shortener is detected, please delete your post if they are right.

10. Don't copy entire article in your post body

For copyright reasons, you are not allowed to copy an entire article into your post body. This is an instance wide rule, that is strictly enforced in this community.

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
rjc@lemmy.world
Thekingoflorda@lemmy.world
dezmd@lemmy.world
Tenthrow@lemmy.world
JonsJava@lemmy.world
gedaliyah@lemmy.world
Blackbeard@lemmy.world
little_cow@lemmy.world
jeffw@lemmy.world
enu@lemmy.world
291
The Feds Want to Know How Fake Titanium Got in Boeing's Planes (gizmodo.com)
submitted 5 months ago by jeffw@lemmy.world to c/news@lemmy.world
47 comments fedilink hide all child comments
all 49 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] Hildegarde@lemmy.world 96 points 5 months ago (3 children)

The issue is not that the parts aren't titanium, its that there isn't a paper trail documenting the titanium.

This is an issue, because improperly forged titanium can have issues that makes it unsuitably weak for its intended purpose. Having documentation showing where the materials came from, when it was inspected for defects and when it was manufactured is critical for safety.

United flight 232 had an engine explode in part due to defective titanium. This is a real safety concern.

Though the headline says boeing, the article mentions these undocumented parts being found in airbus planes as well. Its an industry problem, not a Boeing specific one.

[–] skuzz@discuss.tchncs.de 17 points 5 months ago (4 children)

It is annoying how the media keeps riding the Boeing name for the clicks. Yes, Boeing fucked up, they aren't the only one in aerospace fucking up.

[–] Serinus@lemmy.world 36 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Did they "fuck up" though? Or did they intentionally fire their best people in order to save money, knowing the consequences would be cheaper than the profit made.

[–] skuzz@discuss.tchncs.de 2 points 5 months ago

Yeah, didn't mean to come across as an apologist. Call a shit spade a shit spade. Just annoyed with the media riding the name trolley for ad clicks.

[–] You999@sh.itjust.works 12 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (2 children)

The problem is it's actually is sorta Boeing's fuck up here. The questionable source titanium was caught at spirit aerospace who manufactures parts for Boeing and airbus. Spirit aerospace was originally a Boeing factory that was spun off into its own company in 2005 in one of Boeing idiodic stock pump schemes. Boeing on paper does not have control over spirit aerospace but all of spirit's leadership came from Boeing with their CEO having worked for Boeing for 31 years. Boeing also has a lot of pull inside spirit being their largest customer by a significant margin. Boeing is currently in talks of buying back spirit aerospace to fix the mess they got themselves into.

[–] Thetimefarm@lemm.ee 1 points 5 months ago (2 children)

Well the alternative here would have been to not say anything and cover it up. They found counterfeit material in their inventory and raised the alarm, nothing better they could have done. I don't know what the acquisition process was for that stock, maybe they did fuck up by buying it, but once you realize the problem is there you have to say something or people die.

[–] You999@sh.itjust.works 2 points 5 months ago

We are really going to have to wait for the FAA's investigation because there's still all sorts of questions about their acquisition process and where exactly was the certificate forged. The big question i have thought was when did spirit discover that the certificates were forged because they are claiming parts manufactured all the way back in 2019 were effected. I believe some suspicion on the side of spirit is warranted because this is the same company that is currently being investigated on claims that they were covering up safety issues. Not to speculate too much but I wouldn't be surprised if spirit knew the titanium was fraudulent as early as 2019 and are only now doing something about it because they are being investigated for other issues and wanted to control the narrative.

[–] PsychedSy@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 5 months ago

There's never a good reason to do that. If you find bad material pretty much all incentives align to have you report it.

[–] PsychedSy@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 5 months ago

A lot of it was in their 787 global manufacturing push.

[–] NeptuneOrbit@lemmy.world 5 points 5 months ago

This is the first headline I have seen that excluded Airbus

[–] JamesTBagg@lemmy.world 1 points 5 months ago

What? Read the article? Are you fucking crazy?

[–] Etterra@lemmy.world 59 points 5 months ago

Well you see, when an executive loves money very much...

[–] chemicalprophet@lemm.ee 55 points 5 months ago (1 children)

There needs to be a new rule where when a headline asks why something sucks ass so tragically the answer is capitalism. It’s always capitalism.

[–] the_third@feddit.de 25 points 5 months ago (1 children)

To be fair, personal greed causes the same as well. In non capitalist countries, the answer to this might have been "because Dimitri the quality assurance engineer now has a very light and sturdy hunting stand at home".

[–] BackOnMyBS@lemmy.autism.place 9 points 5 months ago

I can feel the anarchist class consciousness developing 🤤🤤🤤

[–] bloodfart@lemmy.ml 41 points 5 months ago (2 children)

Boeing put it there.

[–] BackOnMyBS@lemmy.autism.place 7 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

Too simple. You are hereby banned from government work.

Reason(s) per Standard Operating Procedure 420.69(f):

  • Not enough forms
  • Not enough signatures
  • Did not acquire approval from the ethics board, Privacy Office, Information Technology Office, Custodial Services, & Chief of Inefficiency
  • Absolute lack of meetings and round tables
  • No use of allocated funds
  • Does not give cause for more bureaucracy
  • No organizational chart
  • Not self-aggrandizing

You may file an appeal with the Appeals Board by completing form SF-80085-rev accessible at appeals.state.gov/brokenlink.lol

[–] AA5B@lemmy.world 14 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

We all make fun of it, but for critical applications like aviation, this is why there is a paper trail for everything. Someone certified that as being titanium, and it probably only took minutes to find out whom.

So the only question is what consequences that supplier faces

Edit: I see it was traced to a Chinese supplier who forfeited the paper trail and it was noticed in the first place because it didn’t meet requirements. Seems like an open-shut case, but maybe this will put some teeth in the trade war some people seem intent on starting

[–] AshMan85@lemmy.world 2 points 5 months ago

And had the people planning to spill the beans killed

[–] JesusSon@lemmy.world 39 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

"Titanium is how much? Fuck it use the fake stuff, I need a new super yacht. What's the worst that can happen, we have to assassinate some whistle-blowers? Hahahahahahaha we can do whatever we want!" - Boeing Executive

There I figured it out for you

[–] toiletobserver@lemmy.world 36 points 5 months ago (1 children)

[–] barsquid@lemmy.world 26 points 5 months ago (1 children)

It's true and funny but I cannot enjoy Dilbert as much knowing Scott Adams is a fucking lunatic.

[–] dumblederp@aussie.zone 2 points 5 months ago

Bad people often make good art.

[–] TotalFat@lemmy.world 26 points 5 months ago (1 children)

"Trytanium"

[–] mrgreyeyes@feddit.nl 7 points 5 months ago

Dotanium or donotanium there is no trytanium!

[–] Danterious@lemmy.dbzer0.com 21 points 5 months ago (2 children)

When is the government going to realize that capitalism is becoming a security risk for them.

The amount of companies that they need to rely on to keep their edge on the world stage is staggering. And all that needs to happen is a few of those companies that don't have developed alternatives making individual decisions to do things cheaper or for more profit will eventually lead to problems like this in critical infrastructure that other countries can take advantage of.

~Anti~ ~Commercial-AI~ ~license~ ~(CC~ ~BY-NC-SA~ ~4.0)~

[–] ichbinjasokreativ@lemmy.world 10 points 5 months ago

If they don't punish microsoft for hiding a vulnerability that let to the largest hack of any government in the history of computers, then they're not going to really punish boeng either.

[–] Buffalox@lemmy.world 6 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

Any system that rewards achievements of any kind work inventions or whatever, will have people cheat to fake it to get the reward. Even if there is no currency and it's only for instance prestige.

Capitalism is bad, which is why it is regulated. But it's the least bad system we have for now, so it all depends on good regulation.

[–] avidamoeba@lemmy.ca 2 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

This attempt to make equivalent different systems that reward achievements doesn't hold water when you think about the real world outcomes of different examples. E.g. rewards for research in the scientific community vs rewarding profit maximization in corporate America. There's a vast trough of dead and sick people separating the two, among other differences.

Capitalism successfully captures regulation (and democracy). The only mechanism that I'm aware of which has shown evidence to resist that is labor organization. But clearly that can be restrained too after a while.

[–] 555@lemmy.world 19 points 5 months ago

Boeing killed John Barnett

[–] NauticalNoodle@lemmy.ml 18 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I can tell you how. To put it simply there was a drive for short term profits that overrode the need for due dilligence in quality-control which pushed them to purchase untested materials from questionable sources. I Don't have any sources or documentation to back up this specific case but it's historically how these industrial failures and oversites always occur. —If this post sounds like a case of Libel or defamation to you then I encourage you to think of it merely as a postulated suspicion instead.

[–] JamesTBagg@lemmy.world 5 points 5 months ago

Well, Airbus was victim to the fraud as well. The supplier created fake documentation. Both Boeing, Spirit and Airbus have all said the tested the discrepant metal and it was the correct alloy it conformed to standards. This isn't the first time fraudulent parts have infected aviation supply, and likely won't be the last.

[–] Cocodapuf@lemmy.world 15 points 5 months ago

It probably got into the planes with rivets, cause titanium is hard to weld.

[–] Kolanaki@yiffit.net 14 points 5 months ago (1 children)

A: Boeing put it there.

[–] AbidanYre@lemmy.world 10 points 5 months ago

Reason: It was cheaper

[–] stevedidwhat_infosec@infosec.pub 9 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I’ll take X company cheaped out, bought from unreliable, dog shit materials provider in country Y (who either purposely or neglectfully knew what they were doing, as a manufacturer), and now has a scape goat despite the root of the issue for 5000 please.

[–] KingJalopy@lemm.ee 6 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

I worked in aerospace manufacturing for a long time. My company (big one) used only certain suppliers so if anything the suppliers are getting the cheap stuff to rip off those who buy for manufacturing. Who were bought from was strictly controlled but who watches the watchmen or metalmen?

[–] avidamoeba@lemmy.ca 0 points 5 months ago

And did the metalmen get acquired by some bean men who understand beans but not metal? 🤔

[–] p5yk0t1km1r4ge@lemmy.world 8 points 5 months ago

Ok, well, you see....they accidentally, and then BAM fake titanium.

[–] forrgott@lemm.ee 8 points 5 months ago (2 children)

Isn't the headline misleading? Keep seeing clickbait headlines about this, but I thought it was a matter of improper documentation, not that it wasn't actually titanium.

So tired of what passes for "journalism" these days. Thanks, RepubliQans! /s

[–] Hildegarde@lemmy.world 14 points 5 months ago

Pretty much yes. Proper documentation is important for safety, but calling the itself titanium fake is incredibly dishonest.

The rest of the headline doesn't fair any better.

The planes that included components made with the material were... Boeing 737 Max and 787 Dreamliner airliners as well as Airbus A220 jets

Headline only mentions one of the involved manufacturers, misrepresenting it as a boeing problem because they know what will drive clicks.

[–] bomberesque1@lemm.ee 2 points 5 months ago

Also I think that airbus are implicated as well but as Boeing are the big bad let's not worry about that

[–] Atropos@lemmy.world 5 points 5 months ago

I would not want to be the guy digging through those device history records.

[–] EtherWhack@lemmy.world -1 points 5 months ago

Apple stoll all of it for their phones

[–] werefreeatlast@lemmy.world -2 points 5 months ago

Well, it looked like titanium and since none of their engineers had ever seen anodized aluminum, that was a really honest mistake. Let's all have a laugh at it 😄 and continue our days...

Oh look, a 737! We get a lot of them as they land in the local international airport. Oh it's getting closer. And closer....shit! Gotta run!.... Phew! It was just a crazy pilot, all good, it didn't land on my rooftop.