this post was submitted on 03 Jun 2024
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[–] spujb@lemmy.cafe 115 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (2 children)

you think redneck homophobes in florida should have universal healthcare?

yeah. doy.

human rights are inherent, not earned.

[–] ameancow@lemmy.world 24 points 5 months ago

If some hostile army started shelling say, rural neighborhoods of single-wide manufactured homes across the American southwest, the primary victims would be conservatives and I would be protesting the violence against them. I would be equally vocal and upset. Innocent people have the right to exist and lives their lives even if I don't agree with them.

I am curious though the ratio of that calculation being reversed.

[–] Asafum@feddit.nl 4 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I was literally about to write the same comment.

I want right wingers to have the same access to healthcare as everyone even if a lot of them want me dead because of it...

[–] spujb@lemmy.cafe 2 points 5 months ago

(paraphrasing a similar comment i saw)

i guess i’m a socialist because i want neonazis to have free healthcare, and i guess i’m antifa because i want them to need it.

[–] Karyoplasma@discuss.tchncs.de 61 points 5 months ago

"Legally killed child" is still the most disgusting thing I've read since a long time.

[–] rsuri@lemmy.world 43 points 5 months ago (9 children)

Pro-tip for all you youngin's. If you wanna be against war crimes, don't get a Soviet tattoo.

[–] frog_brawler@lemmy.world 12 points 5 months ago

Fuck… little late for that. I had “United Societies Solve Rabies” tattooed on my junk, but unless I’m erect it just looks like another USSR tatttoo.

[–] squid_slime@lemm.ee 5 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (2 children)

Pre Stalin USSR was accepting of sexuality.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_history_in_the_Soviet_Union

If someone had a Stalinist tattoo that would be another matter but the hammer and sickle or the raised fist are both for the working class.

Let's not forget that this was the time of chemical castration, murder and repression in the "civilised" countries

[–] FluffyPotato@lemm.ee 7 points 5 months ago

They decriminalized it during Lenin in Russia and Ukrain only but acceptance didn't really arrive, attitudes were mixed at best. At around 1925, if I remember correctly, it was labelled a mental disorder and after Stalin took power it was criminalised again with a minimum of 5 years of forced labour sentence. Any organising by gay people was labeled a fascist or anti revolutionary movement and punishments for that were much harsher.

So for a brief period of about 8 years attitudes were better than a lot of the world but it was by no means a good place to be gay. And for the rest of the USSR existence it was a lot worse.

[–] KevonLooney@lemm.ee 3 points 5 months ago (1 children)

If you mean that everyone was subject to murder and repression equally in the Soviet Union (not just gay or trans people), then you're right.

I watched a documentary on the Soviet Union that discussed Gorbachev at one point. He was from farm country. His paternal grandfather disliked the collectivization of the farms and was sent to the gulag. His maternal grandfather supported the collectivization of the farms and worked for the local farm collective. He was also send to the gulag...

[–] squid_slime@lemm.ee 3 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (3 children)

No I mean exactly what I had said, and no I am speaking of pre Stalins USSR.

Russia was incredibly poor and exploited by the west as well as they're own ruling class pre USSR, things got much better for the Russian working class and its truly astonishing that a country of that time and coming from such turmoil would legalise homosexuality especially when contrasted with western countries.

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[–] Aceticon@lemmy.world 35 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (3 children)

It turns out Principled people don't simply just follow the "what's in it for me" logic.

What! A! Shocker!!!

[–] veganpizza69@lemmy.world 10 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)
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[–] TankovayaDiviziya@lemmy.world 5 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I'm not surprised if there is Hasbara psyops on this to diminish any support for Palestine. They seem to be on overtime accusing anyone of anti-Semitism.

[–] Aceticon@lemmy.world 4 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

It needs not even be Hasbara: it's a pretty standard technique of Liberals who support some immoral position (generally it's about things like cutting the support for the poorest which is social security or having healthcare privatised) to try and leverage identity politics by unreasonably stretching some vague association with a liberal identity group to excuse it or deflect criticism of it (a quite common one is for politicians that happen to be female to bat away criticism of their immoral positions by claiming the criticism is because they are women), so I wouldn't at all be surprised if the source of this specific framing is actually the Biden Administration/Democrat Party trying to make their support for Zionism and their Genocide seem less immoral.

Not saying it's for sure the Democrats rather than the Zionists because with these two is hard to tell as they both would do it:

  • Whilst justifying certain (mainly pro-Money) choices using an unrelated or barelly related identity group that has a history of being victims of descrimination has been a traditional Liberal technique, whilst the Fascists would do the same using national identities (i.e. framing stuff as "For the Nation"), the very special case of the Zionists, who are Fascists within an identitarian group in a nation that has specifically bound that identity with nationality, means they have long used the Liberal's technique (of binding things to an identity group which has a history of being victims) because in their case the "For the Nation" overlaps pretty well with the identity groups (and when it doesn't, they just make believe it does).

Either way, the whole "argument" stinks of hypocrisy and machiavelism.

[–] Tar_alcaran@sh.itjust.works 4 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I mean, I oppose genocide (among other things) on the basis that I wouldn't like being murdered and I prefer to live in a society that doesn't accept genocide. That's kind of self-serving in a way.

[–] Aceticon@lemmy.world 2 points 5 months ago (4 children)

Well, in Phylosophy there is the idea of Psychological Egoism, which is basically that we are all always selfish because even when doing good deeds we do it because at the very least it makes us feel good.

So you could always and for all acts assemble a rational argument that the act was done for selfish reasons.

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[–] kamenlady@lemmy.world 33 points 5 months ago (1 children)

There's a good chance that not only some, but most Palestinians would have a problem with someone being trans.

Even so, yes.

[–] pyre@lemmy.world 5 points 5 months ago (1 children)

not that it makes things necessarily better but for accuracy's sake, and speaking very generally, muslim populations are less likely to have a problem with trans people than with gay people.

[–] bi_tux@lemmy.world 7 points 5 months ago (1 children)

from my experience no, but maybe you met different people

[–] PugJesus@lemmy.world 5 points 5 months ago (2 children)

I don't know if it's a Sunni-Shia split thing, but Pakistan and Iran are weirdly trans-friendly (relatively speaking) compared to how homophobic they are.

[–] pyre@lemmy.world 14 points 5 months ago

nah doesn't have much to do with the split. the general view is mostly based on an assumption of gender binary. so being gay is like going against your gender, while being trans (with operation, and being straight) isn't, because essentially you're fixing something that's not right with your body... not that different from having an operation on your eye to fix your vision or whatever.

[–] original2@lemmy.world 2 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Hmm. I know someone who moved to the uk from iran less tham 12 months ago and they hate both.

The Pakistanis i know are generally anti-both too.

[–] pyre@lemmy.world 2 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

well that's self-selecting; they don't allow you into the UK if you don't hate trans people. it's their national pastime.

[–] original2@lemmy.world 2 points 5 months ago (2 children)

Maybe... Its sad and i want to leave but where to? I'll try and escape after my degree.

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[–] IndustryStandard@lemmy.world 25 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

The gay and trans Palestinians in Gaza must be overjoyed with the support they are experiencing from the west to advance their rights.

I have it on good authority that if we blow up 5 more hospitals Gaza will support the LGBT movement.

[–] PhlubbaDubba@lemm.ee 23 points 5 months ago (4 children)

I can not want to be anywhere near them because of their own potential discriminatory views while still not thinking it's ok to carpet bomb them all to death.

Also, plenty of younger palestinians are at least open to defying holyisms for the sake of personal freedom, one possible reason Hamas chose that concert venue to attack was because of how often Palestinian musicians had been using it to get away with performing music that Hamas morality police would be able to drag them off stage for in Gaza proper.

[–] Linkerbaan@lemmy.world 3 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

The concert was planned to end a day earlier Israel extended its duration. According to Hamas plans it couldn't even be on the map.

The reason Hamas stumbled upon that concert venue is because it's near an israeli military base which sole function is to lock the Palestinians in a concentration camp. The concert also had surprise surprise a lot of armed IDF soldiers attending

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[–] Zehzin@lemmy.world 12 points 5 months ago

I don't want them to be bombed either

[–] dogsoahC@lemm.ee 9 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

Well, I'm a utilitarian, not always. I just can't think of any realistic scenario. /j

Edit: Added a tone indicator to clarify that I'm not actually trying to start a philosophical debate about the ethicality of genocide.

[–] spujb@lemmy.cafe 6 points 5 months ago

utilitarians try not to debate-bro the fuck out of an incredibly sensitive topic challenge (impossible)

[–] JoMiran@lemmy.ml 8 points 5 months ago

I am as boring looking as they come and I still do not support genocide. Weird, I know.

[–] Perturabo@lemmy.world 2 points 5 months ago

Good old gays and bombs times.

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