this post was submitted on 16 Jul 2023
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Sometimes I can tell when my current DM fudges a roll to miss an attack or reduce damage. He has a tell in the specific way he pauses and breathes before announcing the roll, then tries to hurry to the next turn, which only seems to happen when someone is in a life-or-death scenario, but "luckily" survives.

Should I let him know he has a tell? Will it be less fun (or more stressful) for him if he knows I know?

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[–] Vaggumon@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

As a DM, I ask my players at session zero, do you want me to fudge rolls to make the game more fun/interesting, or let the dice fall how they may? I've never had a table ask me to not fudge the dice.

[–] caseofthematts@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Wait, so every table you've had has been fine with you fudging dice? That's honestly wild to me.

[–] Vaggumon@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

In 22 years and close to probably 100 games that I have ran, not once have I been aske not to fudge. But also, I've not been asked to reveal when I do. Which is actually pretty rare. I've probably only fudged maybe a dozen rolls in that time.

[–] caseofthematts@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

That's seriously crazy to me! Wow. It's one of the things I would definitely say 'do not do' if a GM asked me that. Obviously I know everyone doesn't feel as I do, I'm just surprised that in so long, no one has really cared.

[–] Apepollo11@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

I hate to say it, I think you might be in the minority here.

My take has always been that D&D isn't an adversarial game - the DM isn't trying to 'win', they're just trying to keep things entertaining for the players.

The trouble with random is that it doesn't always follow story beats, and doesn't always feel fun.

A big boss not getting any hits in due to bad rolls deminishes the perceived threat, and the ultimate value of the victory. Stupid zombies that just won't stay down despite the fact that everyone is now bored with them can easily be kept down.

As long as you know when to do it, it can be super useful for everyone.

[–] bionicjoey@lemmy.ca 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

My DM once fudged something and I didn't question it at all. It was in curse of Strahd, the party was level 3. He was using the RAW rules in the adventure for random encounters, one of which says the party can get jumped by 3d6 wolves. He rightly surmised that us getting ganked 10 wolves wasn't a very interesting conclusion to our story, so he made up some dumb deus ex machina, and I was 100% there for it. If WOTC can't make a balanced random encounter table, why should we be beholden to it?

[–] simplecyphers@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

Exactly. Encounter building/balancing doesn’t stop at initiative.

[–] meant2live218@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

I'm still a pretty new player, but I'm fairly certain that in my group's second combat encounter, our DM saw that we were going to struggle, so a few rounds before he thought we'd die, he started hinting that people on the street were hearing us. He didn't play around with his rolls at all, which meant us getting hit by some very powerful (even permanently crippling) critical hits, and some of us rolling awfully on his critical miss table. As we started to go down, one by one, the door was getting battered, and when the crew was down to 1 member alive, the city guard arrived and intervened, scaring the remaining mobs and healing up the three of us on the floor.

To me, it meant that he cared about the dice rolls and wanted consequences and actions to feel real, but also he didn't want our journey to end on the first night. But he didn't make the entire encounter feel like a victory, and our characters had to deal with the repercussions of that encounter.

[–] Kempeth@feddit.de 2 points 1 year ago

The point is to tell an exciting story - there's no right or wrong definition of what that means for you.

The dice's purpose is to take you down paths you might not have chosen deliberately but the goal is still to have an exciting story. If the DM wants to be like "I recognize the dice have made a decision but given that it's a stupid ass decision, I've elected to ignore it" then he has my full support.

Maybe a cleaner way would be to decide up front: which outcomes am I ok with? and simply cap the roll at that. You know the paladin only has 17 HP left and you don't want the paladin to go down so the maximum roll you want is 16. So if you have roll 4d6 damage. You do: roll 3 roll 8 roll 12 roll ~~18~~ 16.

[–] mohrbius@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

Long time DM currently running Curse of Strahd for my group. I think I’m in the minority but I actually publicly roll everything. I use Foundry and let my players see all of my results. I also insist on seeing all of theirs. I find it actually kind of fun.

[–] ronalicious@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

sometimes the dice need to hit... and sometimes they don't ;)

[–] JossyBop@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

No, I'll call it out. If they fudge it for me, they'll also fudge it against.

[–] Arcane_Trixster@lemm.ee 1 points 1 year ago

Not necessarily true as there are entirely different reasons for doing each. Only a bad GM would fudge a hit that actually penalized you. A good GM might fudge a hit to take the story in an interesting direction. Fudging rolls is just another tool in the box.

[–] qwamqwamqwam@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I would let him know that he has a tell, yeah. As for whether or not rolls should get fudged, I guess it depends on what you're trying to get out of the game. For me and my players, my emphasis is on the continuity of the story I'm telling, so I tend to fudge rolls to keep things moving along.

[–] snor10@lemm.ee 1 points 1 year ago

Since I'm from the OSR niche, fudging dice is a big no-no for me. When I GM I roll in the open and would prefer if my GM would do the same.

For me, fudged dice cheapens any victory and makes me less enthusiastic about the game. The stakes are gone.

[–] entropicdrift@lemmy.sdf.org 1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

As a player, I make a point of telling my GMs that I dislike fudged rolls and I'd rather roll a new character than claim a false victory.

As a GM, I will always at session 0 tell my players that I don't fudge rolls and often prefer to make my GM rolls out in the open whenever there's a chance they could kill someone or end an encounter. My attitude is that when the players can see my rolls and I tell them in advance "if this is higher than X it'll hit so-and-so", we're all on the same side as we watch the roll play out.

IMO it's not the job of the GM to tilt the game system itself towards the players, but rather to balance encounters and challenges to be beatable, and then see what happens right alongside the players.

To answer your question, tell him if it affects your experience of the game. Don't let it ruin your fun in silence, no GM wants players to do that.

[–] folkrav@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

IMO it's not the job of the GM to tilt the game system itself towards the players, but rather to balance encounters and challenges to be beatable, and then see what happens right alongside the players.

IMHO, the GM's role is a lot fuzzier than that and is wholly dependent on your specific party's (and their own!) preferences. I'd say this is simply what you prefer to do as a GM, rather than what a GM should be doing.

[–] MimicJar@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

to balance encounters

...and sometimes that has to happen on the fly.

Sometimes I've made a fight too easy so I need to provide the goblins with some backup.

Sometimes the backup was always planned after round 2 but maybe it's a little less than I planned because they're already near death. Maybe it's a little more because they've killed most already. Maybe the party was stealthy so less backup. Maybe the party was overly loud so there is more.

Also sometimes the pause to "save" a character comes from determining/calculating if the action is "fair". Why did they just take that "stupid" action. Maybe I undersold just how powerful this NPC was. But maybe I did describe them as having an otherworldly glowing set of armor and you watched them wrestle a bar full of orcs and slice off one their heads in a single blow.

Perhaps you've reached a point between player and DM where this isn't necessary anymore, but I don't fault anyone who might fudge a roll to keep the game fun.

[–] teraflopsweat@lemm.ee 1 points 1 year ago

I haven’t noticed that in my games, but if I was your DM, then I’d rather know that I had a tell