this post was submitted on 28 Aug 2024
40 points (68.2% liked)
Gaming
19960 readers
5 users here now
Sub for any gaming related content!
Rules:
- 1: No spam or advertising. This basically means no linking to your own content on blogs, YouTube, Twitch, etc.
- 2: No bigotry or gatekeeping. This should be obvious, but neither of those things will be tolerated. This goes for linked content too; if the site has some heavy "anti-woke" energy, you probably shouldn't be posting it here.
- 3: No untagged game spoilers. If the game was recently released or not released at all yet, use the Spoiler tag (the little ⚠️ button) in the body text, and avoid typing spoilers in the title. It should also be avoided to openly talk about major story spoilers, even in old games.
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Slavery has occurred in nearly every society throughout human history, the abnormality which is unique to chattel slavery is the legal system that evolved to protect the owners right in totality. Even in ancient examples that most closely resemble the chattel slavery practiced in the Americas, there were still social contracts that prevented the enslaved from the levels of dire abuse African slaves experienced in the Americas.
Are you claiming that all slavery is equally bad? That being an indentured servant is the same as chattel slavery? Seems like a pretty convenient attitude for someone who is trying to distance themselves from the largest example of chattel slavery in recorded history.
Lol, once again equating two totally separate societies and cultures as the same because racist from hundreds of years ago labeled anyone east of turkey as Asian. Cambodia is in South East Asia......
It's crazy how you don't see that trying to justify your position with race science is in fact racist. What exactly do you believe validates your examples of Arab slave trade and the Khmer being pertinent to a conversation about East Asia?
Lol, no it really isn't. You are utilizing your preconceptions about skin color and projecting it to a misinterpretation of a mystical story from the 9th century.
When someone from the tang dynasty is speaking about "westerns" they aren't talking about Europeans, the Arab world, or Africa. They are usually referring to places immediately west of China or West China. In the case of the Kunlun, they are more than likely talking about modern day Malaysia and Cambodia.
Here is a good breakdown of the Kunlun in China, with sources.
Again, you are applying your preconceptions of racial science to a people that predated it, and have a vastly different understanding of things like skin color. The Kunlun weren't all slaves, and the type of slavery that did happen was no where close to chattel slavery.
This is a great example of racism in action. You are generalizing an entire continent, the one with a majority of the world's population, and conflating them to be the same peoples based on criteria that was developed by racial science. The reason this debate has gotten so misconstrued is because the system you utilize to categorize ethnic groups isn't based on any legitimate or logical basis.
Racism is prejudice applied through the lens of racial science. There's a similar prejudice that occurs in ethnic prejudice, that can lead to similarly devastating results as racism, but usually on a much smaller scale.
Racial prejudice isn't based on any real criteria that can be consistently measured or predicted. Which can lead to people classifying an entire Continent of people as the same and lesser than. Instead of a conflict between two rival ethnic groups, it can lead to things like the Scramble for Africa.
I don't know how you can't see that as being relevant, and I honestly don't know why you have a problem with me utilizing a more correct terminology. Utilizing ethnic prejudice is correct when race isnt a factor. Is this the first time you've heard of the terminology, or do you think it's never appropriate? Why do you think both terms are used in academia if you don't think there's a delineation between the two?
Do I put a value difference between the Atlantic slave trade/chattel slavery and the sexual slavery of the Vietnamese women, or Korean women? No I guess I don't! Every version of slavery is both abhorrent and devalues human life, and a well kept slave is functionally still a slave.
I feel like you just ignored any examples that do meet your criteria cause you desperately want Western slavery to somehow be worse than Eastern slavery.
Honestly just sounds like exceptionalism to me. Again, sounds like you are a racist.
Lol, so the amount of people, the amount of violence, the amount of time it's practiced, and for what reasons are all meaningless to you?
So if you had a choice of being from Africa and taken from their homeland and forced into perpetual slavery in the US, where your children could be whipped to death in front of you, or sold down the river for no reason. Or you could be in indebted servitude to a rich family in the tang dynasty who used you as a doorman, but you still got to go home to your family who weren't enslaved at the end of the day.
Both choices would be equal for you? That's just a false equivocation that is willfully ignorant to the actual human suffering that's occurred.
This is just as bad as people claiming that the Irish had it just as bad in America as people in chattel slavery in the South because they were both technically "enslaved".
Because it's not even close...... The chattel slavery that occurred in the Americas is widely regarded by historians as some of the worst forms of slavery in recorded history. By what ever criteria you are ranking it, whether it be by volume, lack of rights, deaths, or in human suffering.
This is not a controversial or even drastic claim. The technology and social hierarchy that allowed them to transport and organize that many people into chattel slavery was even possible prior to the transatlantic slave trade.
I've responded with a clear explanation to all of your ridiculously racist claims this whole time. Even providing sources that explain exactly how you came up with your assumptions. You on the other hand have ignored every question and have failed to explain how your claims are pertinent to the conversation.
Ahh yes, a rebuttal that disproves a highly inaccurate claim..... Exceptionalism.
Again, how do I seem racist? I already said east asians can be racist, I've already said they've had slaves. The only thing I am denying is your inaccurate use of the word racism under specific context, and denying your clearly inaccurate claims African slave trade happening in East Asia during a specific dynasty.
You on the other hand have made generalized claims about race this whole time, in an effort to conflate all slavery as being equally bad.
You don't seem like a racist, based on your claims you are a racist. Go kick rocks.
I don't generally split hairs on enslaving people to make a racist argument that my people are better in some way cause they might have treated their slaves better in some circumstances, that's legit crazy.
If I had a choice to be a slave, would I prefer being an Asian woman being group raped by Asian men until death, would I rather be castrated and worked to death in persia, would I rather he worked to death an whipped on a plantation, would I rather be a house slave for the Ting (which by the way they said they were very nice to their slaves and I bet they was never a bad experience!), would I rather be a Chinese space to the Khan?
None of those sound good, none of them sound like a race is better than the other, you are making a racial argument based on the nuances of slavery and it's kinda silly!
Racist.
We're not talking about modern people, nor are we blaming modern people for their ancestors behaviour. We are examining the crimes historic people did to other historic people, which do vary in different degrees in scale and violence.
The racism you are accused of isn't because of your people's past, it's because you are still utilizing the same racist classification system and justifications that led to their crimes in the first place.
Lol, a lot of writing to admit you just don't care about the suffering caused by chattel slavery in America. I didn't claim that there weren't horrific versions of slavery in east Asia, though you are exaggerating certain aspects. What I claimed is that there is a difference in scope and cruelty, compared between the two, which is just a fact.
Lol, still about race for you huh.
Lol, ethnicity does not = race you fucking idiot.
The whole point of this is that race is construct that can't be used to actually examine the ethnic prejudices that happened in a specific area at a specific time.
Says the person defending an argument developed by white supremacists.....
Uh hu, are the white supremacists who came up with the verbiage you don't like in the room right now?
Yeah chattel slavery was super bad, maybe uniquely bad, that really doesn't say anything about all slavery, which is also bad, no real reason to split hairs expect you specifically don't want to be associated with white people, I guess. I would call that racism honestly. Would you call that Asian supremacy?
"OUR SLAVERY ISN'T AS BAD, AS THOSE YUCKY WHITES!"
I don't know that Muslims are white tho... So that's not very careful about language.
Nah, just their legacy....
Not ignoring one of the largest crimes against humanity = splitting hairs...... Interesting.
You do realize you are the only person separating people based on skin color? My wife is German, I don't hold her country's past against her. But, if she was a Holocaust denier, or attempted to become a Nazi apologist, things would be different.
The internalized guilt is strong with you....
Islam is a religion you idiot, it's not a race, or an ethnicity......Also, you are the only person legitimately utilizing skin color to categorize people. I don't care what your pigmentation is, that's not the thing that makes you a racist moron.
Lol you think I'm white.
Next thing you know you'll be telling me you can't be racist cause of your white friends.