416
‘We were sure the Russian army would protect us’: fury after Ukrainian incursion into Kursk
(www.theguardian.com)
this post was submitted on 17 Aug 2024
416 points (97.5% liked)
World News
39000 readers
2408 users here now
A community for discussing events around the World
Rules:
-
Rule 1: posts have the following requirements:
- Post news articles only
- Video links are NOT articles and will be removed.
- Title must match the article headline
- Not United States Internal News
- Recent (Past 30 Days)
- Screenshots/links to other social media sites (Twitter/X/Facebook/Youtube/reddit, etc.) are explicitly forbidden, as are link shorteners.
-
Rule 2: Do not copy the entire article into your post. The key points in 1-2 paragraphs is allowed (even encouraged!), but large segments of articles posted in the body will result in the post being removed. If you have to stop and think "Is this fair use?", it probably isn't. Archive links, especially the ones created on link submission, are absolutely allowed but those that avoid paywalls are not.
-
Rule 3: Opinions articles, or Articles based on misinformation/propaganda may be removed. Sources that have a Low or Very Low factual reporting rating or MBFC Credibility Rating may be removed.
-
Rule 4: Posts or comments that are homophobic, transphobic, racist, sexist, anti-religious, or ableist will be removed. “Ironic” prejudice is just prejudiced.
-
Posts and comments must abide by the lemmy.world terms of service UPDATED AS OF 10/19
-
Rule 5: Keep it civil. It's OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It's NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
-
Rule 6: Memes, spam, other low effort posting, reposts, misinformation, advocating violence, off-topic, trolling, offensive, regarding the moderators or meta in content may be removed at any time.
-
Rule 7: We didn't USED to need a rule about how many posts one could make in a day, then someone posted NINETEEN articles in a single day. Not comments, FULL ARTICLES. If you're posting more than say, 10 or so, consider going outside and touching grass. We reserve the right to limit over-posting so a single user does not dominate the front page.
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
Lemmy World Partners
News !news@lemmy.world
Politics !politics@lemmy.world
World Politics !globalpolitics@lemmy.world
Recommendations
For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/
- Consider including the article’s mediabiasfactcheck.com/ link
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
As an American who opposed the Iraq War and watched so many of my fellow Americans, mostly conservative, beat the drums of war and slapping yellow ribbons on their suburbans... The same sentiment was definitely here. People treated war in Afghanistan and Iraq like a game. Americans especially as of late have never really felt the direct impact of all-out war. In fact Putin learned a lot about domestic propaganda from those Bush years.
Yeah there's a fair amount of cross pollination between Fox News and co and Russian state sponsored tv, like Alex Jones for example used to appear on various Russian channels.
The first few minutes of this video are a good illustration of the parallels https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OFyn_KSy80
I try to tell people just how bad war is and how much it should be avoided. But that Hollywood idea is just too dug in. I really enjoyed the civil war movie that just came out though. I hope people saw it's message on the sheer capriciousness of suffering in war.
What movie?
I believe they are talking about the movie actually called Civil War about a modern civil war.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt17279496/
I haven't seen it myself. Apparently, the movie never explains why there is a war, which would annoy me too much.
The war is there because the right talked about it so much until they got it
This is true, but it's not what the movie is about so not really an important part.
They drop enough hints to satisfy curiosity but they do not go into details
I might watch it eventually if it drops hints, but I am really tired of movies like that which don't actually tell you why it happened. I felt that way about The Road and also about Leave the World Behind. Fans argue that the actual reason everything ended, or is ending in the case of the latter, don't matter because it's all about the characters... and if that works for you, fine. I need something more than "it just happened."
I totally understand where you are coming from and agree in those particular examples; sure, the characters give us something to watch but without understanding what is actually happening, the story loses tons of steam
In the case of Civil War I think it works because of the following (no spoilers):
Cinematography is amazing and it does have that odd vibe that A24 movies have. I liked this movie a lot.
Okay, you have convinced me. I will put it on my very long list. Thanks.
Oh I saw that... it was decent but I agree it relied too heavily on the purposely not explaining things to create mystery? Otherwise the interaction between characters is good and I believe it had Pedro pascal in it
I don't think it's quite the same situation because an attack on US soil preceded the war in Afghanistan. I think people in NYC felt the direct impact of war on 9/11.
The Taliban offered to give up Bin Ladin in exchange for us to stop bombing them before our invasion. We refused and invaded anyway. Worked out great, I'm told.
Source?
Literally just any news article from when it was happening.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/oct/14/afghanistan.terrorism5
Yeah fair point. I think much of America felt they had an obligation to respond directly to those directly involved with 9/11 (and yet, we never touched Saudi Arabia), so I can understand a limited operation to find OBL.
... Yet literally within 6 months of 9/11, George W Bush famously said, "I don't know where he is, nor do I spend much time on it to be honest with ya[...] I truly am not that concerned about him." Source
It took Obama to clean that up with precision, which is how it always should've been.
That being said I should note that Iraq had fundamentally nothing to do with 9/11 in any way. There were many lies spread by right-wing media and the Bush Administration trying to tie Iraq and Saddam to Al Qaeda and Bin Laden, but none of those bore any truth.
I was politically conscious back then and from amn outside perspective the stupidity was very obvious.
Understandably 911 worked to get people into the mindset.
Russia is different: the people do not care about the reasons for this war, they are depolitisized and powerless and just hope to get through this somehow. They do not seem hungry for this war and are either conscripts or volunteers who get a fairly high salary.
I'm Ukrainian who has lived in the US for almost 30 years. Only now, after Ukraine has bee invaded, did I realize what having that yellow ribbon in "support of our troops" meant. It doesn't matter what kind of "altruistic" reasons you assign to it. Any time a country invades another, they are the bad guy because ANY war means the deaths of innocent people and should be avoided at all costs, no matter the reason.
Much respect to you for evolving your views! There's an incredible documentary, Once Upon a Time in Iraq that shows the war through the perspective of Iraqi civilians. One of the best docs I've ever seen.
You must have a pretty unique perspective on the Russian-Ukraine war. Hoping any family and friends you may have over there are safe.
Experiencing your native country at war changes your perspective on A LOT of things. It makes it easier to understand the wars of the past, and also, puts them in perspective...amongst many many other things. I will consider watching that documentary if there is no actual gore in it, because that's not something I am willing to watch. My relatives are physically ok right now, but they're angry and emotionally drained. It is scary seeing them talk about a recent nearby explosion and making sure everyone is ok.
But yea, it doesn't matter who was "right" or "wrong" prior to war. As soon as you invade, everything prior to that gets overwritten and you're 100% the bad guy, no matter how you justify it.
Thanks for your insight and best of luck to you and your family. A neighbor in my neighborhood has both an American and Ukrainian flag in their yard and I've been wanting to stop to say hello. Nothing but respect...
That documentary has little to no gore if I recall, but a lot of tense moments. The cut I watched was from PBS Frontline, so they're usually pretty tame.. There is a much longer version I believe from the BBC floating around that is over 4 hours long, but I haven't seen that yet.