A fundamental principle of capitalism is competition. In US, lobbying (aka legal bribery) has eliminated competition. So it has changed from capitalism to oligarchy.

Norway is also capitalistic, but everyone is rich there. US could and would have been there if politicians were not sold.

[–] SoleInvictus@lemmy.blahaj.zone 25 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (2 children)

Capitalism and being an oligarchy are neither mutually exclusive nor mutually inclusive, nor is the presence or absence of competition neither mutually inclusive or exclusive of oppression of others for gain. One could argue, though, that capitalism tends to eventually lead to oligarchies and, as the graphic suggests, oppression for gain as these are both strategies to maximize gain and the capitalist operator with the most gain can use that gain to further increase future gain, and so on. This can lead to the systematic selection for oligarchic, oppressive capitalists.

Norway is rich, like many other countries, due to its economic oppression of the global South. While its distribution of that wealth is more equitable than the United States, it still relies on the same system of oppression to accrue disproportionate wealth.

[–] ziggurat@lemmy.world 3 points 3 months ago (3 children)

What I am reading from your comment is: Norway is not perfect, therefor the argument you were replying to is invalid or diminished. Might not be what you intended, but that's what it reads like.

I don't think oppression of the global south is a valid criticism of Norway. I do think the things Norway needs to improve upon are largely similar to things the US has to improve upon. Only Norway is miles ahead in many of these key aspects.

Like corruption, most Norwegians want less corruption.

Equity, most Norwegians think there is not enough equity

Healt care and welfare, most Norwegians think people don't get good enough help with low enough friction

Of course there are more points, and some points don't have overlap.

[–] SoleInvictus@lemmy.blahaj.zone 9 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

Put bluntly, most of the logic in the argument I'm replying to sounds good but doesn't hold up under scrutiny. It presents two false dichotomies as explanation for issues with capitalism. Hence the first paragraph, explaining why those associations are false.

Then I address Norway in the second paragraph, which is given as an example of "good capitalism".

What I am reading from your comment is: Norway is not perfect, therefor the argument you were replying to is invalid or diminished. Might not be what you intended, but that's what it reads like

I'm not sure how you're getting that. I asked my coworker to give it a read without explaining my thesis and they don't see it either. You don't explain why, so I'm at a loss.

I don't think oppression of the global south is a valid criticism of Norway.

Why not? You again don't explain why, so again I'm unsure what you intend beyond "your writing sucks and you're wrong". Give me some substance I can actually respond to!

[–] volodya_ilich@lemm.ee 4 points 3 months ago

I don't think oppression of the global south is a valid criticism of Norway

You not thinking so doesn't make it less true. Norway engages in unequal exchange every bit as much as the USA.

[–] MedicPigBabySaver@lemmy.world 2 points 3 months ago

I really like all of the roundabouts. Even inside the tunnels! Glorious traffic flow. My hometown has a couple. I've begged via letters to the Town management to install new roundabouts instead of 2 pending new traffic light intersections. But, nope. Lights wins the battle. Dumb!

[–] will_steal_your_username@lemmy.blahaj.zone 9 points 3 months ago

Norway is also capitalistic, but everyone is rich there. It's pretty good here, but not that good.

Wage inequality is way lower here in Norway than in most of the world, but it's unfortunately on the rise, in addition to right wing politics becoming increasingly prevalent. Things are good here because inequality was always low, and therefore unions could "win", unlike in the US where unions were successfully opposed by powerful corporations.

Norway is slowly becoming worse, but way slower than the rest of the world because unions and the welfare state stops foreign and domestic companies from exploiting us as much as they want to.

[–] jorp@lemmy.world 2 points 3 months ago

REAL capitalism hasn't been tried it's just a theory those countries aren't really capitalism they just call themselves capitalism.

People like you mock those on the left using similar arguments all the time....

[–] ILikeBoobies@lemmy.ca 1 points 3 months ago

A fundamental of capitalism is also that you’re paid based on the amount of work not the value

[–] MedicPigBabySaver@lemmy.world 1 points 3 months ago

I'm visiting my Norwegian family in October. 4th visit and 2nd to meet family.

Wish I could stay. Maybe I could bribe a cousin to let me live in their basement. 😉