this post was submitted on 13 Jul 2024
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Original toot:

It has come to my attention that many of the people complaining about #Firefox's #PPA experiment don't actually understand what PPA is, what it does, and what Firefox is trying to accomplish with it, so an explainer 🧵 is in order.

Targeted advertising sucks. It is invasive and privacy-violating, it enables populations to be manipulated by bad actors in democracy-endangering ways, and it doesn't actually sell products.

Nevertheless, commercial advertisers are addicted to the data they get from targeted advertising. They aren't going to stop using it until someone convinces them there's something else that will work better.

"Contextual advertising works better." Yes, it does! But, again, advertisers are addicted to the data, and contextual advertising provides much less data, so they don't trust it.

What PPA says is, "Suppose we give you anonymized, aggregated data about which of your ads on which sites resulted in sales or other significant commitments from users?" The data that the browser collects under PPA are sent to a third-party (in Firefox's case, the third party is the same organization that runs Let's Encrypt; does anybody think they're not trustworthy?) and aggregated and anonymized there. Noise is introduced into the data to prevent de-anonymization.

This allows advertisers to "target" which sites they put their ads on. It doesn't allow them to target individuals. In Days Of Yore, advertisers would do things like ask people to bring newspapers ads into the store or mention a certain phrase to get deals. These were for collecting conversion statistics on paper ads. Ditto for coupons. PPA is a way to do this online.

Is there a potential for abuse? Sure, which is why the data need to be aggregated and anonymized by a trusted third party. If at some point they discover they're doing insufficient aggregation or anonymization, then they can fix that all in one place. And if the work they're doing is transparent, as compared to the entirely opaque adtech industry, the entire internet can weigh in on any bugs in their algorithms.

Is this a utopia? No. Would it be better than what we have now? Indisputably. Is there a clear path right now to anything better? Not that I can see. We can keep fighting for something better while still accepting this as an improvement over what we have now.

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[–] mryessir@lemmy.sdf.org 2 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

YOU BUILT THE FUCKING THING. Just turn it off and go away. Tada, we now have something better: no privacy-violating data at all.

Who's forcing you to make advertisers happy? Don't answer that, because I don't care. You can't pretend to be about privacy and then build things that help advertisers violate it.

While I agree that IT IS A SERIOUS CONCERN THAT AGGREGATION AND ANONYMIZATION within a single entity is a true and bad security concern you are blaming the opposition, wrongfully (imho).

The market forces advertising upon us. They step in and provide a temporarily (and not yet fully-transparent) alternative. And they are aware of said risk but still chiming in.

Their feature is adopting current practices but try to find common ground. They do not enrich this data but anonymize it fully (apparently).

The next iteration shall not include distributing this since it would strengthen advertisers I suppose. So your warning is fair but it appears to be hard to find practical common ground.

I think their intention is awesome. Enable 80% of collecting demands and open up a discourse about what should have been done beforehand (the intrusive data collection).

I once again prompt: Americans should be so fk proud of Mozilla. Inspect, Disrupt or Adapt and Be Open for Discussion.

I have no idea what I am talking about, though.