Tbh I am really pissed about this in One Piece's rather latest track. The will of D. and people with the D. names could have been pretty ordinary people with strong wills, good nature, social skills etc. opposing the injustices we see in the manga, but lately with all this reincarnation of Sun God Nika stuff, it is no different than what Naruto and Sasuke have been reduced to.

I know it is 25 years in the making and cultures and perceptions change, along with perception of tropes in entertainment, but can we at least go beyond this "the special one" or "the chosen one" stories?

I also know Oda has been a spectacular surpriser and a mangaka that can connect and change most trivial things to most core stuff to do unforeseen changes to the core of his world-crafting, but my doubts in One Piece being as unique as it was before the New World has been increasing these last 10 years of commercialization of it.

[–] Koarnine@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I understand the hesitation completely as I also dislike the shonen reincarnation plots but I do think it differs quite a lot in that one piece is and has always been about inherited will, and that hasn't changed at all with the sun god reveal.

Luffy has the inherited will of Roger, not nika, I would argue that in terms of blood line nonsense luffy has a special bloodline from when we find out his father and grandfather? So far before the new world. Literally as far back as logue town. But even then, its again actually about inherited will, since luffy inherits Rogers will from Shanks, completely fucks off his grandfather's will. And isn't even aware he has a father, he acts of his own accord, the will of nika doesn't manifest until awakening. As far as I'm concerned, devil fruits and haki are all expressions of willpower in one piece. Also it was never about ordinary people, there are specifically 'ordinary people' on the crew within the first five members to contrast with the rest of the crew being clearly insanely superhuman from episode one. The characters are chosen by fate by having inherited will from those that they idolise and emulated at the right time. Which is more or less exactly how real life (narritively) works anyway.

Sorry for rant or w/e but 'the chosen one' trope I agree gets boring but... Idk it doesn't fully apply to Luffy. But I won't pretend there aren't some elements that apply to Luffy, Zoro, Sanji, Nami, Usopp, Robin, Franky, Brook and Jinbei. I mean listing the main crew they are all fitting of those archetypes in different ways and always have been?

If we talk of 'the special one' that applies to any and all exceptional people real or fictional. So avoiding that you would just be writing a story about unexceptional people doing normal things. Which is all well and good, but don't be surprised when you don't find that in shonen manga. 😅

[–] Land_Strider@lemmy.world 4 points 5 months ago

Ah, I didn't wanna give the impression of completely ordinary so as to be a character from Dostoevsky's novels, but I guess how I wrote it can easily take the topic there. Just wanted to make the distinction between "you are someone special's descendant, albeit without yours' or viewers' knowledge till the story ends" vs "you are someone special only through your efforts, even among the specialty group of ninjas, heroes, devil fruit users etc." The first one has been pretty much trodden with either last minute revelations justifying huge power-ups, or setting the stage for the plot armor of the protagonists.

I'd argue that the will of ancestors is different, and even their effect on Luffy's development is rather through direct action than just being related by blood. Without Dragon directly interfering, Buggy would have got Luffy in Loguetown. "Strong blood" was never something openly used in One Piece before, even more it was pretty much criticized through some villains like Axe-hand Morgan's fascist ideology and the showcases of Celestial Dragons.

The illusion of re-emerging endurance through hardships all over again just thanks to willpower is just as a basic, and as a tired trope for plot as the use of ancestry, but it can nevertheless result in a good variety of situations like the post-Shabody separate training arc, and is a much more comfortable aspect to cheer for a protagonist through.

Having the ancient and most powerful spirit emerge through the protagonist to beat up the bad guys is pretty much against how Luffy's efforts are portrayed. Yes, Luffy does not acknowledge such a thing and plays the usual fool to not understand it, but for all intents and purposes, except for one to subvert later for a possible plot-twist, Luffy is regarded as Nika by the other characters and the audience. In my opinion, Luffy should have been rejecting such a thing as reincarnation or even personification of someone else outright so as to assert the quality, fun, and morals of his own efforts than to utilize ancient bloodline powers, like rejecting Raleigh's offer for the explanation of One Piece and being played favourites as well as being deprived of the fun of overcoming things by oneself.

Inherited will being a culture, thought structure, morals, or aspirations vs being some ancient person's spiritual being has been pretty distinct for me in One Piece till about Nika exposè.

It is a taste issue, and as far I can see you try to help out with the reframing the problem I have to resolve it, and I thank you for that.

[–] Sidyctism2@discuss.tchncs.de 2 points 5 months ago

I really hope oda turns it around by pitting luffys freedom against his destiny, but i dont think so. I dont even know really what was the point, I mean his awakening could have had these powers either way.

Yeah its kinda dissapointing, and made one piece feel less special