this post was submitted on 18 Jun 2024
539 points (98.7% liked)

Privacy

31872 readers
453 users here now

A place to discuss privacy and freedom in the digital world.

Privacy has become a very important issue in modern society, with companies and governments constantly abusing their power, more and more people are waking up to the importance of digital privacy.

In this community everyone is welcome to post links and discuss topics related to privacy.

Some Rules

Related communities

Chat rooms

much thanks to @gary_host_laptop for the logo design :)

founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
 

What you can do: https://www.patrick-breyer.de/en/posts/messaging-and-chat-control/#WhatYouCanDo

Contact your MEP: https://www.europarl.europa.eu/meps/en/home

Edit: Article linked is from 2002 (overview of why this legislation is bad), but it is coming up for a vote on the 19th see https://www.patrick-breyer.de/en/council-to-greenlight-chat-control-take-action-now/

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] fluckx@lemmy.world 12 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Well. Now seems to be a good time to be ashamed to be Belgian.

Shameful politicians :(

[–] Boomkop3@reddthat.com -4 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Reading it, it looks like it doesn't require invasive oversight as long as the chat apps and app stores have sufficient detection and such.

really, that's what such places already should have, considering how much profit they make off of our data

[–] ChairmanMeow@programming.dev 5 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

It does require invasive oversight. If I send a picture of my kid to my wife, I don't want some AI algorithm to have a brainfart and instead upload the picture to Europol for strangers to see and to put me on some list I don't belong.

People sharing CSAM are unlikely to use apps that force these scans anyway.

[–] Boomkop3@reddthat.com 0 points 4 months ago (1 children)

The proposal only does so under specific circumstances, which makes sense. Try to read more than three words before your respond

[–] ChairmanMeow@programming.dev 2 points 4 months ago (1 children)

The point is is that it should never, under no circumstances monitor and eavesdrop private chats. It's an unacceptable breach of privacy.

Also, please explain what "specific circumstances" you are referring to. The current proposal doesn't limit the scanning of messages in any way whatsoever.

[–] Boomkop3@reddthat.com 0 points 4 months ago (1 children)

No, I actually read the current proposal. Maybe try that before regurgitating random stuff that matches your opinion

[–] ChairmanMeow@programming.dev 2 points 4 months ago (1 children)

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=COM:2022:209:FIN

Here's the text. There are no limits on which messages should be scanned anywhere in this text. Even worse: to address false positives, point 28 specifies that each provider should have human oversight to check if what the system finds is indeed CSAM/grooming. So it's not only the authorities reading your messages, but Meta/Google/etc... as well.

You might be referring to when the EU can issue a detection order. This is not what is meant with the continued scanning of messages, which providers are always required to do, as outlined by the text. So either you are confused, or you're a liar.

Cite directly from the text where it imposes limits on the automated scanning of messages. I'll wait.

[–] Boomkop3@reddthat.com 0 points 4 months ago (1 children)

ey there you go, you bothered to actually read. Your chats remain with your provider!

It's not like you were expecting privacy while sending your content through other people's platform, were you?

[–] ChairmanMeow@programming.dev 2 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

Aaand here's your misunderstanding.

All messages detected by whatever algorithm/AI the provider implemented are sent to the authorities. The proposal specifically says that even if there is some doubt, the messages should be sent. Family photo or CSAM? Send it. Is it a raunchy text to a partner or might one of them be underage? Not 100% sure? Send it. The proposal is very explicit in this.

Providers are additionally required to review a subset of the messages sent over, for tweaking w.r.t. false positives. They do not do a manual review as an additional check before the messages are sent to the authorities.

If I send a letter to someone, the law forbids anyone from opening the letter if they're not the intended recipient. E2E encryption ensures the same for digital communication. It's why I know that Zuckerberg can't read my messages, and neither can the people from Signal (metadata analysis is a different thing of course). But with this chat control proposal, suddenly they, as well as the authorities, would be able to read a part of the messages. This is why it's an unacceptable breach of privacy.

Thankfully this nonsensical proposal didn't get a majority.

[–] Boomkop3@reddthat.com 2 points 4 months ago

Ahh, that is indeed a critical detail on the implementation not quite clear right away. To be honest I don't trust the end-to-end encryption most of these services offer. If I want perfect privacy, I'm sticking to self hosting stuff