156
‘Crime is out of hand’: how young people turned to far right in east German city
(www.theguardian.com)
this post was submitted on 14 Jun 2024
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Okay setting aside the politics, fear mongering, and whatnot. Is there any verifiable truth to this?
The fear mongering around crime is happening in the US too, which is verifiably untrue.
It's true, to an extent, but not because migrants bad. You can look at this, but the short of it is that the stats you see in the news are like that mostly because they're counting illegal immigration and illegal stay as crimes in their stats, which as you can probably guess is pretty flawed. You remove that and the numbers look... still bad but a lot more realistic. Then you realize that migrants are more likely to be poor young men (aka the demographic most likely to commit crime). As the article explains, Syrians for example are actually underrepresented in crime stats, because they tend to be complete family units (most Syrians in Germany were allowed to bring their families over) so the demographics are more representative of a normal society.
Thank you that was an interesting read. I have always been amused by the ridiculousness of branding immigrants as criminals for immigranting illegally there for making them ineligible for immigration because they are criminals.
It sort of seem like the secret take away is that the much of the perceived crime is being created because of immigration, but not by immigrants. These attacks on immigrants would be unreported. So not in the statics but still perceived by the public. Very catch 22.
Also it is "amazing" how when men feel they are need and useful to there society, family unit, etc. They tend to be much better, productive members of society. But when you tell them that they are useless and unneeded. They quickly become the useless people they are told they are. (I am sure this is woman thing too, I feel it worse for men idk)
Germany doesn't report crime as clearly as the Danish do but the countries share a lot of similarities.
https://inquisitivebird.substack.com/p/the-effects-of-immigration-in-denmark
What? Where do you live? I live in near a big city in California, crime is out of control There's no consequences for many street level crimes now, especially retail theft. I have personally seen people run into stores, grab stuff and run...while employees are just hiding, scared. They call the cops, who won't come because they're backed up with more "severe" crime in the city... so, it continues, and continues. Who's to blame? The cops, who are already stretched thin? The homeless, because hey, they need to eat too! I mean, it's nuts...I feel like I live in a third world country sometimes..
First never said I lived in America.
Second - The crime rate at its lowest level since 1961.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/people-think-crime-rate-up-actually-down-rcna129585
I'm glad that crime is down, overall, but it effects people differently depending where they live. I live in California, and drive for a living...traveling to Northern and Southern California often... while some violent crime is down, things like car break-ins, retail theft, petty burglary, and hate crimes have not really changed. Again, people will only react to what they have personally experienced. I was in San Francisco last week... it's still a shit show. Homeless using drugs, crazy people walking around threatening everyone, theft... nothing has changed.
Despite a slight trend upward. The crime rate is at historic lows in California. Crime being out of control is exactly what the fear mongers want you to think. They say it, you see a few news reports on it. Then you are more prone to believe it when you seem crime in your area. Yes there is a trend up in crime San Francisco, but are you seeing new crime or the same crime in new areas. It seems very likely that much of this crime already existed in the area. Unfortunately do to rising housing costs, and gentrification. People have been pushed out and are spilling on to the streets.
https://www.ppic.org/publication/crime-trends-in-california/
Weak bait.
No retail worker cares if their slave master gets robbed, try again
So, make retail theft legal? I'm being serious...should we just not care if people steal?
No, but there is a moral distinction to be made between stealing your wallet and stealing from a multi billion operation. Would you agree to that?
Who do you think pays for the lost inventory?
Who do you think pays for extra security that prevents theft?
What does that have to do with anything?
Simple example -- lets say you'd lose 2% of your inventory per year to theft if you did nothing. Your gross income would go down by 2%, so you compensate by raising your prices by 2%.
Now let's say instead you want to lose ~0% to theft. You'll have to hire guards, or more likely, contract out to a security company. That's now going to add to your annual expenditures, let's say 5%. If you want to compensate for that, you'd need to raise your prices by 5%.
So, here's the question -- what's actually the better option for the company? It's hard to say without real life numbers and estimates. But basically, it wouldn't be worth beefing up security if you'd pay more for that versus what you'd lose to theft.
And that's only the monetary side of things. Having very public incidents if the thief doesnt cooperate would be bad for business. Worst case scenario, the thief fights back and has a weapon. You're going to lose waaaaay more in sales than you would've if you just let them keep the contraband.
This is why a lot of companies are more lax on shoplifting these days. It just really isn't worth it. Plus, a serial shoplifter is going to show their face again anyway, and you can quietly accost them preemptively.
Again, what you're implying is that we should just allow petty theft... even 3rd world countries punish people for this...
It isn't worth the effort to punish in most cases
Those are the same department of costs if you operate a store. Either you have some amount of theft or you have security that prevents theft. Either way you'll have to put the costs on your customers. If your customers feel your prices are too high that just means you are doing a bad job at balancing the two.
At a societal level it's kinda the same. You can invest a lot of money into police or you can invest into social programs so that stealing doesn't seem like a good option to most. You'll have to balance the two.
On both levels it's you the individual that has to bear the costs.
I think you have it backwards. Social programs don't help, because that takes an effort by the individual to get involved and be part of something. Most criminals and people who are going to commit crime, are not going to get involved in a social program. I don't know how old you are, but when I was younger, I was absolutely afraid to steal because I didn't want to go to jail. It seems nowadays, that fear isn't there. I would argue more police presence is what a country like the United States needs. People forget just how big, and how many freedoms we have. Hoping that all these people, from all different walks of life and backgrounds, follow all the same laws, isn't going to cut it. We need strict laws, more police, so that people know that crime, no matter the level, is not tolerated anywhere in the United States. I want to live in a country where people are afraid to break the law. I know that sounds crazy...
Sorry I'm not a native speaker I guess social program isn't quite the word I was looking for. It's more of a distribution of wealth thing, and distributing it more evenly is what I meant by social programs.
There is a clear correlation between individual wealth and criminal activity. The more poor people a society produces the more potential for crime exists. This is partially rooted in the fact that if you are poor and you don't see a perspective for a positive turnaround, jailtime suddenly loses its impact.
I think It's not like back in your youth there were way more police, more likely there are a lot more people disappointed and disillusioned by the system so they stopped caring.
I don't think just spending more money on police will fix that unless you employ enough police people to physically stop crime as it happens which isn't going to be economical at all. I think restoring people's faith in the system by improving the wealth distribution would be way more efficient.
I'm not in the USA but I want to live in society where most people choose to abide by the law out of respect for the rules that provide wealth to us all. Not out of fear. If you need fear to control a big portion of your population you are doing it wrong. (Of course you'll always need some police there will always be people that will not want to follow the laws but I'm talking about the general case)
So you want fascism.