this post was submitted on 05 Jun 2024
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I feel like we need to talk about Lemmy's massive tankie censorship problem. A lot of popular lemmy communities are hosted on lemmy.ml. It's been well known for a while that the admins/mods of that instance have, let's say, rather extremist and onesided political views. In short, they're what's colloquially referred to as tankies. This wouldn't be much of an issue if they didn't regularly abuse their admin/mod status to censor and silence people who dissent with their political beliefs and for example, post things critical of China, Russia, the USSR, socialism, ...

As an example, there was a thread today about the anniversary of the Tiananmen Massacre. When I was reading it, there were mostly posts critical of China in the thread and some whataboutist/denialist replies critical of the USA and the west. In terms of votes, the posts critical of China were definitely getting the most support.

I posted a comment in this thread linking to "https://archive.ph/2020.07.12-074312/https://imgur.com/a/AIIbbPs" (WARNING: graphical content), which describes aspects of the atrocities that aren't widely known even in the West, and supporting evidence. My comment was promptly removed for violating the "Be nice and civil" rule. When I looked back at the thread, I noticed that all posts critical of China had been removed while the whataboutist and denialist comments were left in place.

This is what the modlog of the instance looks like:

Definitely a trend there wouldn't you say?

When I called them out on their one sided censorship, with a screenshot of the modlog above, I promptly received a community ban on all communities on lemmy.ml that I had ever participated in.

Proof:

So many of you will now probably think something like: "So what, it's the fediverse, you can use another instance."

The problem with this reasoning is that many of the popular communities are actually on lemmy.ml, and they're not so easy to replace. I mean, in terms of content and engagement lemmy is already a pretty small place as it is. So it's rather pointless sitting for example in /c/linux@some.random.other.instance.world where there's nobody to discuss anything with.

I'm not sure if there's a solution here, but I'd like to urge people to avoid lemmy.ml hosted communities in favor of communities on more reasonable instances.

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[–] aleph@lemm.ee 155 points 5 months ago (7 children)

I've defended lemmy.ml in the past when people have blamed the entire instance for the actions of a solitary, overzealous moderator, but this genuinely concerns me:

This must have been action taken at the instance admin level, considering all those communities have different moderators.

Is there any way to probe the modlog to see which account it was?

[–] ptz@dubvee.org 68 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (3 children)

I can't see those, specifically, but a similar pattern of mass community bans after even remotely criticizing an authoritarian regime is completely on brand for Dessalines.

I don't have record of the comment that triggered these, but when it's something like civility, it's usually just a comment removal and maybe a single community ban.

More of Dessalines getting his stanky tankie tightie-whities in a bunch

Dessalines bans people

[–] Socsa@sh.itjust.works 38 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Imagine that - a white dude who appropriates the moniker of an actual slave revolutionary as a symbol for his "cause" might be cringe and unhinged.

[–] sudneo@lemm.ee 8 points 5 months ago (1 children)

See https://lemmy.world/comment/10467647

It seems this is just a new feature in the upcoming relase (the communities ban).

[–] ptz@dubvee.org 17 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Interesting.

Still, site bans for criticizing China is just as bad, if not worse as mass community banning.

[–] sudneo@lemm.ee 2 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Yes, but that fact is well known and at least this shows there was no particular intention to chastise the user - it was just a button press.

[–] GreyEyedGhost@lemmy.ca 3 points 1 month ago (1 children)

The punishment was easy, so the intent wasn't as great. You know, the difference between a bullet to the head and repeated bashing with a rock. I'm sure in all these instances, the lack of effort was a relief to the target of the action.

[–] sudneo@lemm.ee 0 points 1 month ago

Every point can be supported with an analogy bad enough

[–] Eldritch@lemmy.world 54 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (3 children)

Gonna put this out there. Ended up in a thread on ML the other day. The poster/admin got a little unhinged, over 4 down votes. 4. Took to the admin panel to see who dared down vote him. Convinced he had been the victim of the tiniest not swarm ever.

1000001794

It's troubling behavior for anyone with power.

[–] ptz@dubvee.org 19 points 5 months ago

Lol, is that why they removed scores from the API? 😆

[–] Hubi@lemmy.world 9 points 5 months ago (2 children)

Downvotes are public on Lemmy fyi. There are interfaces that show who voted on a post or comment.

[–] Eldritch@lemmy.world 5 points 5 months ago (1 children)

For admins, yes. I was pointing that out in the picture of the responses I posted. But not for General users.

[–] Hubi@lemmy.world 12 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Even regular users can see them through other federated services like kbin AFAIK. They show up under likes and dislikes.

[–] heads@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 month ago

I can see them through the lemmy reader app I use.

[–] Pili@lemmy.world -5 points 5 months ago (1 children)

You gotta admit, it's very suspicious to be massively downvoted (25, not 4) over an inconspicuous comment that merely highlights a few paragraphs of the linked article.

I know I would also be wondering if there was a pattern in the origin of those downvotes.

[–] FaceDeer@fedia.io 37 points 5 months ago

I would imagine that if an admin is doing this the modlog could simply be faked, you wouldn't be able to trust anything that the instance is reporting to the outside world.

[–] Socsa@sh.itjust.works 25 points 5 months ago (2 children)

This is actually more evidence that the Lemmy devs run a modified version of the code which gives them the ability to, eg do things like dole out mass community bans. There is also some evidence that they selectively federate the mod log as well. It all points to the obvious conclusion that these people can and will abuse their power in any way they can.

[–] WanderingVentra@lemm.ee 17 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I'm pretty sure any admin could do that with their Lemmy server, couldn't they?

[–] PrettyFlyForAFatGuy@feddit.uk 7 points 5 months ago

Yes, an admin probably has access to community level moderation rights and the lemmy API is not difficult to figure out.

It would be trivial to come up with a script to go through the community page, get all the current communities and iterate through them banning a user in each of them.

[–] vorpuni@jlai.lu 4 points 5 months ago

I have had comments removed and could never see why. Now I just block their instances.

They roleplay as communist censors since that's all they can afford to do from their positions.

[–] kuato@lemmy.world 25 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Only admins can do site bans. What you're seeing is a hacky/temporary feature of the upcoming Lemmy v19.4, of which lemmy.ml is running the pre-release: when an admin bans someone from the site (temp or otherwise), it also automatically bans them from any community they have ever participated in. Lemmy.ml has always been the "beta" instance for new releases.

[–] aleph@lemm.ee 8 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Ah, that makes sense. Thanks for the heads up.

[–] Speculater@lemmy.world 22 points 5 months ago (1 children)

They specifically obfuscate which mods take what actions so you can't appeal or even defend.

[–] sudneo@lemm.ee 8 points 5 months ago (2 children)

Tbh, also harass a mod. People get quite worked out when being moderated, and being a mod is enough work without people chasing you to argue with you or straight up harass you, I suppose. At least, I can see plenty of good reasons to hide the moderator name.

[–] Speculater@lemmy.world 8 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Then have a mod box or something. What they currently do is, "Post removed. Reason. Rule 1."

No details, no appeal, nada.

[–] sudneo@lemm.ee 2 points 5 months ago (1 children)

What does this have to do with showing mod log? Genuinely confused

[–] Speculater@lemmy.world 6 points 5 months ago (1 children)

If they act on a post or comment, there's no way to ask why or see what their actual reasoning was. So it allows blanket censorship without a paper trail.

[–] sudneo@lemm.ee 2 points 5 months ago (1 children)

It does, but it's an online forum, not an essential service, and easy to replace. On the other hand, being there with your name or nickname exposes you to harassment from those pissed at you for your decision.

I would say it's an acceptable evil given the circumstances.

As a side note: asking why after a mod action is almost universally pointless. Moderating is free work and a level of subjectivity is implied. I think not having the ability to argue is infuriating but understandable.

[–] vorpuni@jlai.lu 1 points 5 months ago

My experience with them is you can't even find the modlog if you look when they remove comments. I guess they don't federate it and/or it only shows if you're logged in?

Good incentives to block their instances.

[–] neshura@bookwormstory.social 7 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

To quote the reason why calling out mods by name is forbidden from a previous encounter I had with them: "removed for doxxing"

So yeah I think you're giving them too much credit here

[–] sudneo@lemm.ee 0 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I am not sure I understood. You called some mod by name and they removed the comment? If that's the case, I perfectly understand and agree with the decision tbh.

That said, this is a general argument, not referred to any particular mod. I think that many people get angry when their content is moderated and they might want to harass/argue/avenge against the mod who took that action.

[–] neshura@bookwormstory.social 4 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

You agree that tagging the username of a mod (wasn't even one it was an admin) is doxxing? If so, you're delusional.

Mod names are visible by default on my instance so if taking a look there and then mentioning the username you see there is doxxing good luck with the rest of your life. You can't have a system where everyone can easily find out who performed a mod action and then claim you were "doxxed"

[–] sudneo@lemm.ee 0 points 5 months ago (1 children)

No sorry, you said name as in the person's name, I did not understand "username".

[–] neshura@bookwormstory.social 4 points 5 months ago

well in this particular case it wouldn't have mattered, I used the username but the admin in question has their clear name set as the display name (which made the whole "doxxing" claim even funnier to me)