this post was submitted on 23 May 2024
199 points (88.1% liked)
Technology
59457 readers
4395 users here now
This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.
Our Rules
- Follow the lemmy.world rules.
- Only tech related content.
- Be excellent to each another!
- Mod approved content bots can post up to 10 articles per day.
- Threads asking for personal tech support may be deleted.
- Politics threads may be removed.
- No memes allowed as posts, OK to post as comments.
- Only approved bots from the list below, to ask if your bot can be added please contact us.
- Check for duplicates before posting, duplicates may be removed
Approved Bots
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
And still Mercedes is the car company with the highest autonomy level of any car manufacturer. And no one talks about that.
Mercedes Drive Pilot only works on a handful of hand-picked highways is California and Nevada. It must have a car in front of it to follow. It can't go over 40mph. It can't navigate thru interchanges. It can't be used in inclement weather. It doesn't work around flashing lights. It doesn't work on construction sites. It doesn't work in night time. It cannot change lanes and it doesn't work on roads without lane markings.
It's effectively a train except train can take you to more places. Also, it must have a driver who can take over when needed. That's level 3 self driving. Waymo is level 4.
Here's what happens when you put Mercedes Driver Assist (Not Drive Pilot) against Tesla's FSD. Tl;dw: It's completely useless.
Tesla ACC (Autopilot my ass) manages to ‘drive’ 130km/h, while requiring you jerk the wheel every few seconds. The 2015 VW Passat I used to drive supported 160km/h and I didn’t have to jerk the dam steering wheel. Granted it did not have lane assist (Autopilot in Teslaspeak). Still, claiming a Mercedes not doing at least 220km/h using assisted driving is just silly.
One more anecdote: couple of weeks ago I rented a current Audi A4, the ‘Autopilot’ took the car to 244km/h - I decided to not push it further even though it was legal. That was just an A4!
Teslas add dangerous because the car - very much like the company CEO - is claiming it can do things which it ultimately can’t. When it fails and the and you, the driver, can’t compensate you’re on the newspaper.
You don't need to "jerk" the wheel. You only need to touch it gently. This is because level 2 is "hands on" system. Allegedly though even this will be going away with version 12.4 and from there on it's only the cabin camera that's monitoring you. It's debateable wether this is a good thing or not. Makes it easier to abuse the system.
No one is making any claims about how fast Mercedes Drive Pilot should go. Your accusation is disingenuous. I'm simply stating that it can't go over 40mph. That's pretty slow for a vehicle that can drive autonomously only on highways.
Yes, you do. One of the reasons I didn't end up buying a Tesla.
That's true for any other manufacture but Tesla. Stop lying.
For people not familiar with the wheel-jerk required by Teslas:
No, it's because it's a Tesla. Other manufacturers, including Mercedes, have sensors in the steering wheel so "You only need to touch it gently.". Again on (all) others, not Teslas.
Some current cars do have (Lidar based?) driver monitoring as this is set to become law. The car checks whether you pay (enough) attention. Test drive a GWM Ora - it's fucking annoying. No worries though, this will never work properly in a Tesla.
Please re-read this, does it still make sense to you?
I could return the accusation of being disingenuous but that falls short as claiming a Mercedes does 64 on ACC/assited driving is just fucking stupid. 64 is to slow to be on the Autobahn.
Okay well I was wrong about having to turn the wheel. I'm not lying - I just didn't know. I've watched hours and hours of content of people driving with FSD and I haven't ever seen them having to do that so I didn't know it was a thing.
Anyway, that's allegedly going away with V12.4
Then you should test drive some EVs yourself - it is very eye-opening. I also recommend watching YT channels that test different brands and aren’t caught in the fanboy trap.
Why do you need to be such a dick about it? Just because I'm interested in self-driving technology doesn't mean I'm a Tesla fanboy. That's ad-hominem. No other brand (that I know of) makes a car you can buy that's capable of doing what Tesla's FSD can do. That's why it's the brand I most pay attention to. If you think there's some other manufacturer I should look into more closely then by all means link me a video about it.
I already daily drive my dream car and the "smartest" feature it has is anti-lock brakes. While it would be nice to test drive a modern EV I however have no interest in buying one nor could I even afford it.
I’m aware that I was not my politest in this conversation but my last comment wasn’t meant to be dickish in any way. Sorry if it came across as such.
Also I did not say you are a Tesla fanboy but you are clearly misinformed by Tesla fanboys. The Tesla community is also well known for its sometimes toxic fanboys. That does not mean that all of them are like this though but it’s a thing.
Please take the following advice, not me being a dick or trying to be condescending:
When you watch better YT channels you’ll notice that no manufacturer offers FSD. Tesla sells “potential FSD” since more than a decade. See for yourself by going on tesla.com and opening the order form or check out one of the YouTube videos showing Elon promising FSD to be happening ‘soon’ year after year after year. At this point I don’t think we’ll ever see a FSD Tesla.
Also you’ll see Tesla isn’t the best by a long shot.
As for test drives: Just because you don’t intent to buy one doesn’t mean you can’t test drive one. I buy used cars on general principle but do the test drives on current models - a dealership that sells both used and new cars prefers you drive a designated test car. Just give it a try.
We're good. I tend to fall victim to the snide remarks from time to time myself as well.
To me "Full Self Driving" is just the name of the software. I've been perfectly aware from the day one that it's not actually capable of full self driving. That's a quite tired argument that I'm not interested in debating. I can however still aknowledge that Tesla has been intentionally misleading in their marketing of it.
People have different definitions for what "full self driving" means to them and by my definition Teslas are more or less capable of this. If not "full", then atleast self-driving. It's not a system I'd trust my life with but the car is capable of driving itself from point A to point B often without driver intervention so to me that fits the definition.
Then who is? Waymo self-driving taxies might be more capable at this moment but that's not something you can buy. Mercedes Drive Pilot is extremely limited and I'd argue less capable than FSD not to even mention their level 2 driver assistance software which is complete garbage. If there's a car that you can buy which does self-driving better than Teslas then I'd really like to know about it so that I can look into it more. As demonstrated above; I have no issue admiting I'm wrong when proven otherwise. I'm not in any way emotionally invested into Tesla or Elon. This just is the kind of subject where no one so far has managed to convince me I'm wrong. I truly believe that the current version of FSD is the best self-driving software currently available to consumers.
Going by official testing authorities Mercedes, Audi, BMW, Ford, Hyundai, Genesis, Nio, and a couple of others are better.
From personal experience I can say Audi, Ford (Mustang Mach E), Hyundai, Nio and Jaguar beat Tesla hands down. The GWM Ora beat Tesla in the majority of features, not sure about driving assistance though. The Nio was particularly fantastic, there’s a good chance it’ll be my next car in 3 years or so.
Edit to add: I did not test drive a Mercedes myself as the EV models within budget were either too big or too expensive.
Are you sure you're actually aware of what the current version of FSD is capable of? Because when I try to find videos demonstrating the self-driving on those other brands they're only using the highway assistant (which Tesla calls autopilot) and thus only driving on highways and not in the cities at all. I really struggle to find videos of anyone comparing FSD to the brands you named and I'm assuming it's because there literally is no compareable system on any of the competition and Tesla is just so far ahead. The only other company with car that has similar capabilities is the Waymo's highly modified Jaguar I-Pace but that's Level 4 self-driving taxi that you cannot buy. Tesla FSD is level 2 but in reality they're not very far off despite Tesla only using cameras (and radar on hardware 4 Model S and X)
Here's a video comparing Tesla Autopilot (not FSD) to Mercedes Driver Assistance (not Drive Pilot). The video starts by showing the "official ratings" for those systems and according to them the Mercedes should be significantly better. However the real world test tells quite a different story. Mercedes 44 driver interventions versus 0 on the Tesla. And they're still only driving on a highway.
You said you drove at 244kph legally so I'm assuming you're from Germany. FSD is not available there, only the less capable Autopilot of which's basic version comes with every Tesla. FSD is paid software and much more capable.
OK, one more time: there is no FSD. Dismissing official tests and putting them in quotes is Covidiot argumentation style.
We can only judge what Tesla puts out to be tested officially and what they put on the market - which is non-working rain sensors, road sign recognition, etc. pp. On top of that you have shoddy workmanship.
Just stop peddling these shit videos and go drive one yourself. Also you are again spewing bullshit you have no idea about with ridiculous confidence. You’ve proven yourself a liar only 2 comments ago - you lost all credibility.
Tesla used to be ahead of the market a couple of years back - not any more. Also since Elon completely lost his mind and stopped letting his betters run the show decline got worse.
Yep, in Germany I drove a rental A4 across the country sometimes doing 244. Speed sign recognition & adaption worked was well as driver assistance (Teslaspeak: FSD Autopilot which will be available next year, trust me bro) as well as - and this will be shocking to a Tesla fanboy (which you totally aren’t) - the rain sensors! On top of that the car had working park assistance, incredible!
At this moment I don’t think we’ll ever see a Tesla that’s legally allowed to do that. In fact I think it is likely that the dozen+ Chinese companies coming on the western EV market right now in addition with German car makers finally getting around to deliver the good stuff as well as what Korea delivers mean bad news for Tesla. Vision only blindly into doom.
No, we're talking about self-driving.
FSD is literally the name of the self-driving system that’s been available on Teslas for years. There’s FSD and there’s Autopilot. They’re different systems. You live in Germany and thus have never tried FSD because it’s not available there—only in the USA. You’re talking about Autopilot; I’m talking about FSD. You can disagree all you want about whether it is actually “Full Self-Driving,” but that’s still the name of the system. Having a discussion about it is impossible if you just plug your ears and deny its existence. That is just cognitive dissonance on steroids. Full Self-Driving (Supervised) is a Level 2 driver assistance system available for Teslas in the USA only, and it’s MUCH more capable than Autopilot.
The existence of a system more advanced than Tesla’s FSD on a car you can buy would be a really big deal, and there would be a ton of videos comparing it to a Tesla on YouTube. Just link me such a video that’s less than 3 months old and shows both city and highway driving, and I’m ready to admit being wrong again.
Being blinded by hatred doesn’t make you any more honest in your judgment than being a fanboy. You’re both just as biased. It’s ridiculous how angry this all gets you.
Once more: Full Self-Driving (Supervised), previously known as Full Self-Driving (Beta) but commonly just called “FSD,” is the USA-exclusive, subscription-based self-driving software available on Teslas. It’s one of three different versions of self-driving systems that Tesla offers. The others are Autopilot and Enhanced Autopilot. Autopilot comes on all Teslas and is just a highway assistant; it’s the one you’ve tried. You clearly have no idea how capable FSD nowadays is, and you refuse to figure it out because you’d have to admit being wrong. Confidently wrong.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
current version of FSD
Here's a video
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.
Because it's insanely restrictive and can't be used by most people or in most situations. It's little more than a marketing ploy.
I drove a hyundai recently which had multiple levels of lane assist and it drove for miles unassistated. Jarring experience, it didnt meet intersections or anything but kept to the road and speed I wanted.
Did not handle off ramps well, drove past them as needed then tried to course correct onto them very late.