this post was submitted on 19 Aug 2023
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Murdered by Words
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Responses that completely destroy the original argument in a way that leaves little to no room for reply - a targeted, well-placed response to another person, organization, or group of people.
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- Posts based on a grammar/spelling error
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- "Your values are bad" without any logcal or factual ways of showing that they are wrong ("I believe in capitalism" - "Well, then you must be evil" or "Fuck you you ignorant asshole")
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Equity: equality of available options.
Plus a whole huge swathe of problematic gender expectations to squash to boot.
No, it's not about squashing the identities themselves, it's about squashing the gendered expectations. Women shouldn't be expected to know how to do laundry, cook, or avoid dirty jobs. Men shouldn't be expected to be tough and "walk off" injury and trauma, etc.
Sure, only some are "different", but remember: It's not about dissing or removing the identities themselves, (outside of the highly problematic ones like the very machismo man) it's about not setting them as expectations for everyone.
Laundry and cooking are basic life skills and most people regardless of gender should know how to do those tasks. No one should be expected to be doing those tasks because of their gender.
My parents have been together since they were 14 and follow “traditional” gender roles when it comes to housekeeping skills including cooking and laundry (although they treat each other as equals and certainly raised my brother to be fully independent). My mum has terminal cancer and she’s started to teach my dad the things he’ll need to be able to do for himself soon. It’s equal parts heartbreaking and hilarious watching the sheer panic in my dad’s eyes as my mum is explaining pretty basic cooking skills. Everyone should know how to cook, clean and do the laundry no matter their gender.
It is very sad to hear your of your mother's condition. It is absolutely beautiful and heartwarming she is taking the time to teach your father and leave him more prepared for his future. They must truly care for each other
They do 🙂 And as awful as it that my mum is dying, I think as a family we’re making the best of the time we have left. Thank you for your kindness.
I agree. That's why conservatives who are ree-ing about "the queers" not knowing these basic skills not only belies how pathetic they are, but goes to show it is distinctly not about them being better than anyone. They just want legal slaves again, whether they'll admit it or not. That's what a trad wife effectively is. A house slave, since they lost real slaves further back.
This is basically the same. If you remove the gendered expectations you remove the identity. Gender is the expectations.
That's what makes it so resilient, not willing to renounce deeply held identity, people keep enforcing the expectations.
I understand you're saying this because of the status quo, but it is egregiously foolish to state the status quo as a simple fact. It makes it appear as if you fully support the status quo.
Not just in direct discussions like this, but even bystanders get it. It's why the news picks their words very carefully, usually to slant the truth to their corporate agenda.
That's not true. A man will always be a man, a woman will always be a woman and an NB/GNC type of person will always be NB/GNC. It's not about what society demands of you for your body type. It's who you are. It's what you are.
I know I'm walking a fine line, but still, in general, women have certain interests/traits and thus have their own skills/tendencies: care for children, avoid dirty jobs, etc. And men are tougher thus can more easily "walk off" injury and trauma. So when you see a man and a woman in an accident, both relatively little wounded, would it be morally bad to say to the man "you can probably walk it off", and to the woman "do you need more help with that?" ? Because there is just a higher probability of this being the case. This shouldn't obviously taken for granted, but if you don't know them, and the injuries are right in the middle where you kind of expect them to be okay, but are just on the verge of asking/stating anyway, you would say these things and thus distinguish between them based on gender. Is that so bad?
Where are you getting “men are tougher than women” from? Do you have a source for men being able to walk off injury and handle trauma better? I’m not being a dick, generally asking because I’ve never heard that claim before.
Men have more muscle mass than women so they are stronger, particularly in the upper body - and their skin is thicker (literally, not metaphorically). But boys are also more fragile than girls; they are more likely to die before birth, more like to be born prematurely and more likely to die in childhood. In adulthood, women have a stronger immune system than men and they recover better from brain injuries. Boys and men are more vulnerable to environmental contaminants and disease in general.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/are-men-the-weaker-sex/
So for example a physical trauma. Both man and woman get hurt by the same amount, the man would have a higher chance of "shrugging it off" because 2 reason: thicker skin (as you said), and have a rougher mental (or at least want to appear to have), e.g. they want to be seen strong, so they are more inclined to say they are ok
But do you have any evidence to back this up?
well if you are a reliable source to yourself, I'd say:
And for the other other, the rougher mental, I don't want to play mean or anything, but isn't the burden of proof more on your side? Yes it is certainly possible society molds certain characteristics of men, but that doesn't necessarily mean this particularly trait is - the rougher mental. Don't you agree, right now, in western society, men are less likely to admit their pain?
No dude, the burden of proof isn’t on me. You made some bold claims and I asked for a source. Twice. You didn’t provide one. It’s ok if you just made it up, or it was an anecdote - I was just genuinely interested if there was evidence. You don’t have any so I’m moving on. It’s all good.
My dude, you are not walking a fine line, you are swimming in the pool of gender essentialism. Yes, it's bad.
What good does it bring to expect that people behave according to gendered biases? We all know it brings a lot of misery. I think people should think really hard if they prefer to believe in stereotypes about gender because it benefits them somehow more if this status quo is kept.
🤔 Where do non-binary or genderfluid people fall in this analysis?