this post was submitted on 29 Apr 2024
440 points (78.1% liked)

Memes

45884 readers
2023 users here now

Rules:

  1. Be civil and nice.
  2. Try not to excessively repost, as a rule of thumb, wait at least 2 months to do it if you have to.

founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
 
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] phoenixz@lemmy.ca 20 points 7 months ago (3 children)

Also victims of communism: anyone aged 1-99 who happens to be the wrong family, who practices wrong think, who has family members who practice wrong think, who have an opinion, who like to be different, and I can go on for a while....

People like you should maybe watch 'the chekist". Once you're done and not crawled up in fetal position while crying maybe you can think for a little bit about what it is that you really want.

Seriously, you tankie types are nauseatingly naïeve.

[–] interdimensionalmeme@lemmy.ml 10 points 7 months ago (1 children)

That's just regular authoritarian statism, tribalism and human herd behaviour.

Anyone unfortunate enough to have lived through high school knows how dangerous the little human empires are.

[–] platypus_plumba@lemmy.world -1 points 7 months ago

Yeha, I could also point far right authoritarian governments and say that capitalism is bad... But that would be stupid.

[–] jkrtn@lemmy.ml 6 points 7 months ago (2 children)

Somehow I assume you don't associate capitalism with chattel slavery and apartheid. But you do associate corrupt authoritarianism with economics when it is system that you don't like.

[–] EchoCT@lemmy.ml 1 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Slaves are e human capital. So by definition weren't plantations capitalist?

[–] jkrtn@lemmy.ml 2 points 7 months ago

I think they are very much capitalist. And then surely the Civil War that poors fought on plantation owners' behalf should also be blamed on capitalism?

[–] phoenixz@lemmy.ca 0 points 6 months ago

What is it with people here thinking that earning a wage is slavery? That requires either a complete lack of understanding what slavery or just some serious impressive mental gymnastics.

I associate corrupt authoritarianism with communism because it's an inevitable outcome. Communism only works of you remove individual freedoms and force people into it. This, by design, requires a dictatorship. Dictatorships foster corruption because you can't have transparency.

[–] Grayox@lemmy.ml -2 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Rent seeking behavior is wrongthink. Being Royalty is practicing wrongthink. Communism is built on Critical Theory making criticism of society its bedrock. I dont consume propaganda, I try to stick to primary sources as close as possible and make my own.

Seriously you Capitalist Apologists are so brainwashed by literal Cold War Propaganda its pathetic.

[–] FluffyPotato@lemm.ee 3 points 7 months ago (4 children)

The USSR had a minimum sentence of 5 years of forced labor for being gay. Being gay is also apparently wrongthink.

[–] archomrade@midwest.social 17 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Between 1907 and 1937, over 30 U.S. states passed compulsory sterilization.

Woops, wrong thread.

[–] Acinonyx@lemmy.sdf.org -5 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)
[–] archomrade@midwest.social 7 points 7 months ago

I was using the same implied argument he was, bud

[–] Shyfer@ttrpg.network 13 points 7 months ago (1 children)

That's been an issue in constant capitalist countries, too. That's not an issue of communism and is an unrelated complaint.

[–] FluffyPotato@lemm.ee -4 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Yea, I know, I'm not defending capitalism. I'm saying every attempt at communism has been fucking horrible for not just landlords and capital owners.

[–] Shyfer@ttrpg.network 5 points 7 months ago (1 children)

And a lot of attempts have also been great at raising the standards of living for the general population, as well as for economic development in a relatively quick amount of time.

[–] FluffyPotato@lemm.ee -4 points 7 months ago (2 children)

In the USSR those improvents were for Russia, not so much for their colonised regions where they exported resources from. Industrialisation also helped but that's not really unique to anything.

[–] archomrade@midwest.social 6 points 7 months ago

The complete lack of self awareness is truly astonishing

[–] OurToothbrush@lemmy.ml 7 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

And socialist nations like the GDR were better on gay rights in the late 80s than capitalist nations are now.

And Cuba has the most lgbt equality of anywhere right now

And China is opening state sponsored trans Healthcare clinics, including for children

Meanwhile in the US if you're trans you can't live in half of the country and you're worried about getting hatecrimed in the other half. And you have pundits of the capitalist class calling you pedophiles and "the jews of gender"

Also, gay liberation movements in the imperial core were mostly led by communists, you can't give credit to capitalism for being forced into granting concessions.

[–] Grayox@lemmy.ml 3 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Advocating for Communism is not Advocating for the USSR.

[–] FluffyPotato@lemm.ee -2 points 7 months ago (1 children)

You say that but there are numerous people in the comments defending both the USSR and Stalin.

[–] Shyfer@ttrpg.network 7 points 7 months ago (1 children)

The USSR did good things and bad things but reactionaries like to pretend it was all bad. There are hard numbers about life expectancy increasing, better life for women, research achievements, general quality of life and happiness metrics, and more that increased. There was lots of bad parts, but same in the US.

There were anti gay laws on the books for the US, and towns you couldn't even walk in while black. Hell, there are still some sundown towns in places in the US. If you just point out that stuff, or if you lived in such a horrible area or had family who did spreading their stories, then it will just come off as a hell hole. The US does suck, but it's not just Skid Row, the projects, lynch mobs, coups, wars, etc. Same for the USSR. There were good things we can save and build on, and bad things we need to avoid for future socialist projects.

It's not like the first attempts for democracy went well, either. But I wouldn't diss it in the Middle Ages and say we can only do monarchies, the pinnacle of political achievements, just because " it never succeeded. It fell in Greece and the Roman Republic and every other time it's been tried, and has never worked ever and thus is always doomed to fail."

[–] FluffyPotato@lemm.ee -2 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

My problem with people citing those metrics is that they are true for Russia itself while ignoring that a large reason for those improvements was colonialism done to the occupied regions. Industrialisation was another thing that improved those metrics but that was hardly unique to the USSR. Some of those regions may have had benefits but here in Estonia it was pretty much all around bad. After the occupation ended the quality of life here improved rapidly.

As far as examples for socialism I'd say the USSR was an all around failure but people still defend it and even Stalin who basically guaranteed it's failure as a socialist project. In the baltic region the word communism is basically poisoned because of the USSR.

[–] OurToothbrush@lemmy.ml 7 points 7 months ago (1 children)

You need to look at the referendum to maintain the soviet union before you say shit about imperialist Russia. Non-russian SSRs were most enthusiastic about keeping the USSR around.

[–] FluffyPotato@lemm.ee -2 points 7 months ago (1 children)

The one boycotted by 6 of the 15 territories? Or the ones that followed in each that led to them declaring independence which in turn led to the collapse of the soviet union?

The baltics were 3 of those boycotting territories and we had similar referendums for independence which, I'm pretty sure, all got over 70% support.

[–] OurToothbrush@lemmy.ml 2 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

The one boycotted by 6 of the 15 territories?

That's the one, where Russians had less interest in the USSR than the participating territories.

Or the ones that followed in each that led to them declaring independence which in turn led to the collapse of the soviet union?

Sure, and not the presidential coup. Get real.

The baltics were 3 of those boycotting territories and we had similar referendums for independence which, I’m pretty sure, all got over 70% support.

And the Baltics are doing so much better now.

I'm reminded of a story of Lithuania charging holocaust survivors for fighting as partisans against the nazis in WW2. It happened in 2009. They've gotten more fascist since. Wonder what itd be like if the USSR was never overthrown.

[–] FluffyPotato@lemm.ee -3 points 7 months ago (1 children)

The baltics are actually doing much better now yea, by pretty much every metric.

[–] OurToothbrush@lemmy.ml 4 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

Yes, slightly improved metrics sure compensate for the systemic nazi rehabilitation /s

And for the overall lowering of living conditions across the former USSR /s

[–] FluffyPotato@lemm.ee -2 points 7 months ago

Nope, living conditions have improved massively and way less nazies here than Russia as well.