this post was submitted on 05 Apr 2024
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Lefty Memes

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An international (English speaking) socialist Lemmy community free of the "ML" influence of instances like lemmy.ml and lemmygrad. This is a place for undogmatic shitposting and memes from a progressive, anti-capitalist and truly anti-imperialist perspective, regardless of specific ideology.

Serious posts, news, and discussion go in c/Socialism.

If you are new to socialism, you can ask questions and find resources over on c/Socialism101.

Please don't forget to help keep this community clean by reporting rule violations, updooting good contributions and downdooting those of low-quality!

Rules

Version without spoilers

0. Only post socialist memes


That refers to funny image macros and means that generally videos and screenshots are not allowed. Exceptions include explicitly humorous and short videos, as well as (social media) screenshots depicting a funny situation, joke, or joke picture relating to socialist movements, theory, societal issues, or political opponents. Examples would be the classic case of humorous Tumblr or Twitter posts/threads. (and no, agitprop text does not count as a meme)


1. Socialist Unity in the form of mutual respect and good faith interactions is enforced here


Try to keep an open mind, other schools of thought may offer points of view and analyses you haven't considered yet. Also: This is not a place for the Idealism vs. Materialism or rather Anarchism vs. Marxism debate(s), for that please visit c/AnarchismVsMarxism.


2. Anti-Imperialism means recognizing capitalist states like Russia and China as such


That means condemning (their) imperialism, even if it is of the "anti-USA" flavor.


3. No liberalism, (right-wing) revisionism or reactionaries.


That includes so called: Social Democracy, Democratic Socialism, Dengism, Market Socialism, Patriotic Socialism, National Bolshevism, Anarcho-Capitalism etc. . Anti-Socialist people and content have no place here, as well as the variety of "Marxist"-"Leninists" seen on lemmygrad and more specifically GenZedong (actual ML's are welcome as long as they agree to the rules and don't just copy paste/larp about stuff from a hundred years ago).


4. No Bigotry.


The only dangerous minority is the rich.


5. Don't demonize previous and current socialist experiments or (leading) individuals.


We must constructively learn from their mistakes, while acknowledging their achievements and recognizing when they have strayed away from socialist principles.

(if you are reading the rules to apply for modding this community, mention "Mantic Minotaur" when answering question 2)


6. Don't idolize/glorify previous and current socialist experiments or (leading) individuals.


Notable achievements in all spheres of society were made by various socialist/people's/democratic republics around the world. Mistakes, however, were made as well: bureaucratic castes of parasitic elites - as well as reactionary cults of personality - were established, many things were mismanaged and prejudice and bigotry sometimes replaced internationalism and progressiveness.



  1. Absolutely no posts or comments meant to relativize(/apologize for), advocate, promote or defend:

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[–] MossyFeathers@pawb.social 26 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

My general understanding of socialism is A) "seize the means of production, comrade" B) capitalism assumes the one with the money benefits the economy the most, socialism assumes the one who does work benefits the economy the most, C) because of B, capitalism projects power down the hierarchy, while socialism projects power upwards.

What am I missing?

[–] KidnappedByKitties@lemm.ee 11 points 7 months ago (2 children)

What a neatly succinct way to put your understanding, well phrased.

It's unfortunately conflating economic policy with social policy, and is quite divorced from anything happening since 1917. Most of Europe lives in democratic socialism, which combines none of A), with none of B).

From the power perspective you're mostly right though, in socialism it's the citizen that has rights, in capitalism it's capital. Meaning that voting and influence stems from different fundamental perspectives, sometimes different enough that they aren't opposed (like in most western DemSoc).

Economic socialism typically means that the purpose of the economy is to raise the standard of living for the citizens, this typically means providing healthcare, infrastructure like roads, housing and clean water, and affordable goods. And usually leads to equalising tax structures, with progressive taxation of the affluent, and higher tax burden in the things that exploit/hinder the societal good, like companies, damaging luxuries (like alcohol, sugar) and pollution.

Ideologically it typically means that every citizen has the right to a comfortable and fulfilling life, where emphasis and understanding differs across the world. And it typically translates to citizens having equal, unalienable rights, with support structures in place for the more vulnerable. That could be that official documents are made available in multiple languages, more flexible voting arrangements, advocacy and support for infirm, elderly and marginalised groups. I'd simplify it as: every citizen is entitled to a comfortable and fulfilling life, and all the support they need to live it.

Politically the focus is on common good, with as little individual impingement as possible. Universal healthcare and education are great investments in the national economy, so is child and elder care, which frees up the workforce from other chores. Support for the arts, hobbies, and recreational spaces is common, as is public beautification, public forums, parks/nature preserves.

But none of this is in necessary opposition to capitalism, which isn't a political system of governance more than economic anarchy. Capitalism doesn't by itself have any aims, ideology, or principles about voting rights, it simply wants capital to produce more capital, and would in the extreme not have any voting rights beyond what you can create with your capital.

In the US it translates through liberalism to policy, where small governance leaves more room for individually powerful citizens, of which capital is increasingly the dominant party.

[–] MossyFeathers@pawb.social 5 points 7 months ago (2 children)

I see, so it's actually a lot closer to my personal beliefs than I was expecting. I think my beliefs could best be summed up by, "people shouldn't be earning a living, they should be earning a luxury". They're a bit more complicated than that, but that's the gist of it.

[–] KidnappedByKitties@lemm.ee 6 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

Interesting.

What you're saying is well aligned, but from a fundamentally different viewpoint. Socialism doesn't (by itself) address any of the things in your summation. The closest I can explain it in terms that could make sense to you is just the first part: "people shouldn't be earning a living".

I think ideological socialism just axiomatically starts from a different perspective. A person (traditionally a citizen) shouldn't have to earn their right to live, rather it's our shared interest that all of us can live our best lives. From that perspective work is only relevant as a way to create wellbeing (sense of purpose, creating things, being helpful, etc), economy comes only in the implementation and how we fund the society that allows the ideal.

And that's where different groups have tried different things, planned economy has had mixed success, capitalism within the social framework is the current fashion in most of Europe/World, but you also have kibbutzes/communes, homesteading, and multigenerational and/or sectarian communes.

All these are different implementations of socialism, and none of them are founded on the idea of work, salary or expenses. They typically start from other ideals, where the economic policy simply becomes a tool.

[–] Smorty@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 points 7 months ago

I like that sentence and I will steal it from you thank you very much

[–] alsaaas@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

What in the love of Marx is this? Europe living in democratic socialism? In what world? Socialism is specifically the public ownership of the means of production (aka. economy), which is not in place anywhere in Europe atm. All of the stuff you mentioned are remnants of a withering Keynesian welfare state, funded by (neo-)colonialism/imperialism

And no, economy and politics are not seperable. Economics is inherently political and politics is inherently economical. Just as material and social conditions are inseparable

[–] KidnappedByKitties@lemm.ee 1 points 7 months ago

And then democratic socialism happened in the 1980s and onward.