this post was submitted on 16 Aug 2023
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Blåhaj Lemmy is a Lemmy instance attached to blahaj.zone. This is a group for questions or discussions relevant to either instance.

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I figured since their admin has asked them to stop participating over here it may be worthwhile to get a new discussion going that is primarily blahaj. I'm almost certain they'll still be upvoting so keep that in mind as that may skew things. Worthwhile to check in from instances that have already defederated them. The previous thread definitely left a bad taste in my mouth but what do y'all think?

Old thread can be found here


EDIT: With regards to the post on new federation guidelines here: https://hexbear.net/post/352119

The current top comment is:

Every instance that has talked shit and got dogpiled should be thanking us for breathing some life into their dead and boring ass websites.

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[–] Erika2rsis@lemmy.blahaj.zone 14 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (40 children)

I will summarize my views that I left on the first thread:

  • While I do not agree with mandatory pronoun marking, or with needing to have one's neopronouns approved, the number of Hexbear users with neopronouns in their names indicates that the instance is extremely pro-trans and inclusive of all non-binary identities.
  • Ada has very poorly handled the response to her "people of NATO" statement in a way that leaves a very bad taste in my mouth regarding the administration of Blåhaj Lemmy. I have noticed that a comment left by a Hexbear user saying "death to Nazis and transphobes" is gone now as well, which if this was an act of a Blåhaj Lemmy administrator, further reflects poorly on Blåhaj Lemmy's administration.
  • For as much as I've enjoyed some of Hexbear's communities, such as !transenby_liberation@hexbear.net, Hexbear users have often been weird, annoying, or wrong as well. However, I do not think that being weird, annoying, and wrong is cause for defederation, and would prefer that defederation be reserved for illegal content and neo-Nazis, lest we create a culture that is hegemonic in its beliefs and values.
  • The ideal solution is for individual users to be able to block Hexbear, but this appears to only be possible using uBlock Origin and half-possible with one of the mobile clients for Lemmy. Until this becomes a feature of Lemmy itself, I believe that Hexbear should be defederated if this is the will of a majority of Blåhaj Lemmy users.

I will also state that I am biased in my views due to the fact that I am an anarchist who doesn't use the word "tankie", I am very strongly opposed to respectability/civility politics, and I am very careful about SIFTing every bit of news that appears on my feed. For these reasons, my experiences with Hexbear and its users will be markedly different from those with differing views or social media practices, a number of whom report experiencing "harassment, brigading, disinformation, and bad faith arguments". I am sure that these people are being honest, but I can only speak from my own experience.

Lastly, I would like to note that I read that a number of Hexbear users were opposed to federation to begin with, due to the potential disruption this could be for the site's culture, and as Hexbear's culture (e.g. emojis, which improperly scale on other instances) are taken to other sites. It is therefore my conjecture that some fraction of Hexbear users may be intentionally going against their admins' words and being annoying on other instances specifically in order to get Hexbear defederated. I do not fully understand Hexbear's culture or site politics, so I would prefer to hear from Hexbear users on this matter: since this thread is local-only, Hexbear users may wish to send me a DM explaining the controversy on their site regarding federation, and if my conjecture has any merit.

I may edit this comment with other thoughts as they come to me.

Edit: I received this DM from a Hexbear user regarding federation politics on the site. I am sharing this with his permission. I will create an audio version upon request.

Relevant links in the DM:

@JohnBrownsBussy2@hexbear.net also sent me a message reading, "[...] Also, it looks like our admins have posted new rules concerning federated conduct. Some people are being grouchy about it, but I do think moderation is going to improve: https://hexbear.net/post/352119?scrollToComments=false"

[–] spaduf@lemmy.blahaj.zone 12 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

https://hexbear.net/post/352119

Top comment on this post is

Every instance that has talked shit and got dogpiled should be thanking us for breathing some life into their dead and boring ass websites.

https://hexbear.net/comment/3744380

[–] Erika2rsis@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The top comment is that, and the rest of the comments are saying what...?

[–] spaduf@lemmy.blahaj.zone 12 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Primarily deflection and shitposting. I see exactly ONE comment in praise of the new rules.

[–] Erika2rsis@lemmy.blahaj.zone 10 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The top-level comments I see in order are,

  • The aforementioned comment
  • Asking for an update to the UI to clarify when a post is federated and what that means for user behavior
  • Shitpost
  • A post in favor
  • Saying that Lemmy needs to allow local-only communities
  • "[...] I still think that federating with so many communities at all the same time was a bad idea [...] I hope we take a more measured approach moving forward."
  • Shitpost
  • Shitpost
  • Disappointment at one aspect of the rule change but understanding its necessity
  • "okie"
  • "[...] wasn't dunking 99% of the reason we federated in the first place? [...]"
  • Asking about if users should censor names when "dunking"
  • Shitpost
  • Asking for clarification about one of the new rules

A lot of shitposting, sure, but I don't see how you can really call any of that "deflection".

[–] spaduf@lemmy.blahaj.zone 13 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

The comments I consider deflection:

  • Asking for an update to the UI to clarify when a post is federated and what that means for user behavior (Full text is: Okay, can we get like, posts from other sites to have red backgrounds with caution tape all over so we don't forget? [mischevious emoji])
  • Saying that Lemmy needs to allow local-only communities (true but not really the problem)
  • “[…] I still think that federating with so many communities at all the same time was a bad idea […] I hope we take a more measured approach moving forward.” (most instances do not have these sorts of problems)

Ultimately the tone of the instance and its infectious nature on the fediverse are the issue. Particularly as it does not seem that the admins/mods truly have the ability to reign in their users.

[–] Erika2rsis@lemmy.blahaj.zone 6 points 1 year ago

Also, their admin telling them not to participate in this thread seems to have worked, so maybe they have more of an ability to reign in their users than it seems? It might be best to wait a while to see the impact of their rule change before defederating.

[–] Erika2rsis@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

I figured it was those comments you were referring to, and I can sort of see where you're coming from now that I think about it, since it should be on the users to behave even without changing Lemmy's features. Still, I don't think it's particularly malicious to discuss how to improve the site, and how they could've approached federation differently. I think that functionality shapes behavior, so these are the types of things that should be discussed.

Edit: And regarding "most instances do not have these sorts of problems" — I don't think it's good to treat the majority experience as the universal experience.

[–] spaduf@lemmy.blahaj.zone 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

And regarding “most instances do not have these sorts of problems” — I don’t think it’s good to treat the majority experience as the universal experience.

Don't get me wrong hexbear is absolutely anomalous. I do not think that is an argument in favor of federating with them.

[–] Erika2rsis@lemmy.blahaj.zone 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I don't think them being anomalous is an argument in favor of not federating with them, either.

[–] spaduf@lemmy.blahaj.zone 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Them not jiving with the broader threadiverse is absolutely reason to defederate. They should probably be in their own network of leftist shitposting and trolling instances. Places with similar tone and customs around dogpiling.

[–] Erika2rsis@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 points 1 year ago

I still think it's too early to reach a verdict.

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