this post was submitted on 27 Mar 2024
1006 points (99.0% liked)
Memes
45734 readers
392 users here now
Rules:
- Be civil and nice.
- Try not to excessively repost, as a rule of thumb, wait at least 2 months to do it if you have to.
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
As someone who has worked in IT communications, nobody deploying 5G is doing anything differently than for 4G/LTE/3G/2G or even coax/DSL/fiber/whatever. The only functional difference is that it's faster. It may operate with newer tech, faster chips, different frequency bands, different modulation techniques, etc.... But at the end of the day, it's just a means to get data from here to there. Nothing more.
Also, the government (or "the man" or "them" or whatever), already have an almost universal method to track every living person in the country. You willingly carry this tracker with you at all times; to work, to the park, to friends and family locations, etc..... If you haven't guessed yet, it's a cellphone.
A big part of increasing the network speed on commercial wireless networks (cellular provider networks) is reducing cell size, aka, the amount of space each radio covers, and just increasing the number of cells (radios) serving an area. They know exactly which cell(s) your phone is connected to, where those cells are, which direction the antennas are facing and how far you are away from it (by signal strength, or rssi). This can be triangulated with other antennas that can "hear" the same signal, and all of their metrics (location, direction, distance), and that information can be quickly collected and cross referenced into a very accurate location.
This can be done without any software on your device, and very likely without having a valid service plan. As long as you're in range and the cellular radio is on, "they" already know where you are. And you carry your phone with the radio online at all times, willingly. Pretty much once you get to have your own phone as a teenager, they know where you are and "they" have been able to track you since.
Having apps like Facebook and whatever that get your location information from the network and the app relays it to Facebook (or whatever corporate entity), is the equivalent for the corporate overlords. You just need to invite them in by having the application installed, and it can report that data to them.
Most do this entirely willingly and could not give any fewer shits about it.
This is not speculation, this is part of the technical capabilities of the systems. Whether or not the government or any legal entity is using the information for this purpose is up for debate, but the fact that it can be done isn't in question. There are entire companies dedicated to building solutions which correlate connection data to geolocate connected devices with a high degree of accuracy.
A nontrivial part of the reason these systems exist is for e911, which can relay GPS information to emergency services. A system which does not work very well for most counties because their 911 systems are too old and underfunded. If it works correctly, your precise location and altitude (to determine if you're on the ground floor or not), can be accessed by emergency services in the event that it is required. Usually those features are only accessible or activated if you actually dial 911 (or your country's equivalent emergency number), but they're built out and exist regardless of if you need/use it. This was made a requirement by the government since your physical address bound to the number you are calling from, is not necessarily where you are when you make the call. In the olden days of landlines, every phone number would come up with the service address when you called 911. Since the service address was the only location you could use that line from, that worked. Now that we're almost entirely mobile, it's not useful anymore, so this system was devised. Then the government promptly denied sufficient funding to 911 systems to implement their end of the system, while mandating that carriers set it up.
It's stupid. But I digress.
The fact is, you are being tracked. It's being done for your own good (re: emergency services), but it's very easily abused by those who can access it. People like government agencies.
Whether they're abusing it or not, that's a question you'll have to figure out for yourself.
Actual conspiracy theory: Very small fish tend to die a few days after being exposed to electromagnetic metal detectors. Fewer die if you hold them above the metal detectors. This is an observable phenomenon you can try at your own expense. While I don't think 5G is a significant enough increase in energy density to cause you to die, there is a good chance it's enough to introduce destabilization in homeostasis due to body warming. Especially if you live within 100 meters of a tower. Babies tend to be fussier sleepers when sleeping very near routers or baby monitors using a meager 2.4, 5, or 6 GHz, attempt experimentation at risk of the children.
Not a conspiracy theory: Snowden proved they are. Everyone in a 5 Eyes country is stuck having their private moments exposed at any given moment for any reason.
It's a well known scientific fact that higher frequency waves carry more energy. For larger mammals, such as humans, these differences are trivial for the most part. Unless you're standing in a location which is exposed to high amplitude and high frequency EM waves, the danger is generally nil. By high frequency, I'm talking about pretty much anything over ~10Mhz, and for high amplitude, I'm talking about power levels at or above 100W. Putting 100+W of power through an antenna is extremely rare, and due to things like attenuation, free space path loss, reflections, refractions, etc, unless you're basically standing directly next to an antenna, in its transmission path, you're fine. Bluntly, this is why cellular towers are set up the way they are. Usually an antenna mast will have a relatively small support pillar of some sort, usually a cylindrical "pipe" shape, or a set of support beams in an overlapping "x" shape, which narrows as it goes up. At the top it usually flares out for where the antennas are mounted, so if you climb up the mast, you end up behind the "business end" of the antennas; aka, they're pointed away from you. This means that the vast majority of energy being produced is directed away from where you are. For everyone else, being on the ground or even in a nearby building, you're too far away to be exposed to significant signal amplitude. We can it EIRP in the industry, or "estimated isotopically radiated power". The EIRP drops off quickly in the first few meters after the antenna, as the signal expands outwards towards the service area; so even being within 15m is generally safe.
EM waves can be dangerous, specifically in the extremely high bands; IMO, this is what scares people. Extreme high band EM is dangerous at most power levels. These extreme high bands are capable of causing damage at the cellular level, possibly causing your DNA to break down. These are referred to as "ionising". The bands that people most commonly know that are ionising, includes UV and X-ray. High band UV 2 and UV 3 are in this range, and x-rays are too. They're all EM waves and they are extremely dangerous. These are all emitted by our sun, and mostly blocked by ozone. Some small levels of UV 3 might get through (hello skin cancer). What I want to point out is that these are all at, or above hundreds of terahertz in frequency. UV bands start around 800Thz. 80,000 times higher than 10Ghz. It goes up from there.
Light, which is also an EM wave is between 400-800Thz, and it's widely considered harmless. Yet, common folks tend to start to freak out about EM above ~6 GHz because of a lack of understanding. 8Ghz is more than 100,000 times lower than the low band of UV (which is non-ionising). Any EM wave with sufficiently high transmission power is strong enough to cause damage, for most frequencies below 400Thz (aka, below visible light) would need to be significantly higher than what we normally use. For context, transmission power at the antenna for broadcast radio (eg FM radio stations), is usually around 100kW maximum per antenna system. These transmitters can be legally and safely placed in urban areas provided adequate separation between the antenna and the public, usually 30-40 meters. To contrast this, the broadcast power of WiFi at 2.4Ghz is usually set at or around 100mW (0.1W), with a maximum output of around 1W (legally at least). To further this example, microwave ovens use 2.45Ghz frequency EM to heat your food. This is usually combined with a very well insulated cage to prevent that energy from escaping, which both protects you and your home from being cooked, and also directs the energy towards the item being heated, improving efficiency. Most modern microwaves can emit around 1000W (or 1kW) of power. 2.45Ghz is, however, special, in the way that it directly interacts with water. This specific frequency can excite water on a molecular level to create heat. I won't go much further into it than that. So it's unique in the interaction it has. Something something resonant frequencies something something.... Look into it if you're curious. The point is that your 2.4 GHz WiFi is 1000-10000 times less powerful than your microwave. Other frequencies do not have the same effect on water or other molecules. If your microwave ended up emitting 3Ghz instead of 2.45ghz, you would have a microwave that consumes a lot of power, which doesn't do anything useful.
I mention this to point out that the amount of power needed to affect something in favorable conditions is generally at or above ~800W of transmission power, in the equivalent of an EM "mirror" box. Consumer goods generally will never transmit above 1W. Even at 0.1W you can usually saturate your house, your yard, and your neighbors yard.... At least enough to "see" the signal.
"5G" and "6G" mobile/cellular technologies operate in the gigantic band between 900MHz and 400THz (often on the lower side of that very broad range), well below the level of ionizing EM, and at power levels well below what would be dangerous. The largest 5G arrays run with power levels around 120W. Which is less than 1/8th the power of your microwave, and at a maximum of 40Ghz, well below ionising.
Scientifically speaking, 5G mobile carrier antennas are less dangerous than walking under a 1000W flood light, which people do without hesitation, or even a thought given to any possible danger from the exposure to the ~600Thz EM being emitted by the floodlight.
Bluntly speaking, it's a stupid argument to be afraid of 5G for the transmissions themselves. You will not be harmed by them.
Thank you for taking the time write this, I wouldn't have the patience to do it.
Nice write up. There is a guy that tried out how dangerous the microwaves are (tl:dr not very): https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3hBRxwQXmCQ&pp=ygUgc3RpY2tpbmcgbXkgaGFuZCBpbiBhIG1pY3Jvd2F2ZSA%3D
Short term effects seem to be none so far. I wouldn't stick any part of myself into one, but his video is still quite hilarious
That.... Is definitely not recommended.
I only have a fairly basic grasp of physics and biology, and from what I know, the microwaves will heat up the water inside your cells.... Specifically the 2.45Ghz emitted by the magnetron in a microwave "oven". It will easily penetrate your flesh and heat you up from the inside out.... Like, on a cellular level. The water inside your cells can very easily and quickly boil, causing the cell to explode.... Especially when exposed to ~1000W of 2.45GHz EM energy. It's non-ionising so the effects will be limited by the amount of exposure, and limited exposure won't cause much damage. Your body will very easily heal, since you lose cells all the time. Prolonged exposure will kill you.
Also, activating a nearly 1kW magnetron in an open environment will have devistating effects on anything operating in the same frequency band, and likely anything on resonant frequencies, which will likely get you in trouble with the FCC (or local regulatory body), which can include aircraft, military operations, emergency services.... It's a long list. If they use radios as part of their normal operation, a powerful and unregulated transmission like this can basically jam their system making any legitimate broadcasts unintelligible. This can obviously put lives at risk.
With that said: do not do this.
I'm licensed to operate radio equipment in amateur radio bands up to 190W EIRP (if I recall correctly), and I don't think I've ever used anything more powerful than 50W, I don't own anything more powerful than 25W, and anything with the antenna attached to the radio (like a handheld radio) that I own doesn't exceed 10W, most are 5W. For me, if I was using anything over 50W, I'd want a band pass filter on my antenna feed line to eliminate spurious emissions on resonant frequencies just to be extra careful.
That all being said, since the damage from this guy has already been done, I wouldn't expect any further issues for him. I'm sure his biological systems have fully recovered from the exposure, and I don't expect it to resurface again. If it was higher frequency (ionising radiation) then he would probably already have died, and even if he didn't, he would be in for a lifetime of hurt, but yeah, 2.45Ghz is relatively safe by comparison.
Just to note, above x-rays are all the radioactive emissions that come from stuff like nuclear materials. Which is why they're called "radioactive" .... They're actively emitting radio (EM) waves. Usually well into the petahertz and exahertz, while ionising radiation starts in the very high terahertz range.
1Ehz = 1,000Phz = 1,000,000 Thz = 1,000,000,000 GHz (For clarity)
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://m.piped.video/watch?v=3hBRxwQXmCQ&pp=ygUgc3RpY2tpbmcgbXkgaGFuZCBpbiBhIG1pY3Jvd2F2ZSA%3D
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.
Truly, thank you so much for responding. I love learning from experts.
Faraday cage. Please. I'm a fool, not an imbecile. And to be clear, I'm well-aware of ionizing radiation bands.
However, my concerns lie in extended exposure. I'll relate this to analog. Regardless of frequency, sound as quiet as 70 decibels can cause hearing loss after extended exposure. In the territory of 24 hours and longer, mind you. This is as quiet as, say, a hearty conversation, or a washing machine.
And this is a dual inverted sliding scale. Hearing loss zones:
I'd like to know where the scales for EM radiation amplitudes are. I've read a few studies but most of them focus on bursts or separated exposures. Very few of them observe sustained continuous exposure.
Also, I'm aware sound and radiation are not apples to apples, but my point of relating energy input and exposure duration is the same. If you ask anyone if 70 dB is safe, everyone will tell you, "Yes. Of course." Which is not correct. Even 60 dB can do you further harm, if your ears have not healed from damage sustained immediately prior.
Now you're getting into much more familiar territory. UV-A, the lowest band of UV, at UV 1 is entirely capable of causing sun-burns. It just depends on exposure time and pigmentation. Any sunburn has the potential to cause cancer. The more intense the burn and larger the affected area, the higher the chance more cells mutate, the higher your chance one of those cells becomes an unstable cancer cell, the higher the chance one of those cells becomes stable, and the higher chance for metastasis... From non-ionising low flux UV-A. Possible, but unlikely. Though increasingly likely as duration increases.
Inverse square, I'm familiar. And now we're cooking with fire. Let's elide frequency for a moment, pretending it's irrelevant in the same way mechanical waves' frequencies are.
Let's assume 30-40 meters for 100KW antenna and 15 meters for ~20W macro cell is instantaneous minor damage. With each meter you distance yourself, the concentration of wattage decreases. What do you suppose the limit of energy density is for immediate damage when in direct contact? What do you suppose is the limit of wattage for sustained direct exposure on scale of 24 hours. That is, the equivalent of 70dB for intensity. What about sustained exposure for several years?
I don't fear the effects it will have. After all, death will come to us all at some point. However, that doesn't mean I'll be reckless with the time I have left.
Also, I just started studying to get my Ham and haven't quite wrapped my brain around a lot of the implications, so your input is very much appreciated. Thanks.
Regarding everything previous to your mention of Snowden – No. Simply no. We've already done exhaustive research, 5G isn't even close to a high enough frequency