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Georgia Senator Vows to Protect Girl, But Then Runs Away After Learning She Is Trans
(www.erininthemorning.com)
this post was submitted on 17 Feb 2024
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Sounds like he was taking her daughter to the Democratic senator in support of him and the other senator happened to come by. Def not a cudgel
Nice choice of the word/idiom cudgel, since a cudgel is a small (child?) version of a weapon.
It's a good word, isn't it. I'm not saying the politician is in the right here, I just don't like parents using their children in this kind of way. I feel the same about child actors, really.
Are you 100% devoted to the mentality that she's being used or is there evidence you'd accept to demonstrate she wants and deserves to be involved? I'm personally on the fence given limited information, but I lean toward trusting and respecting the parents, as I had political opinions that went against my parents at that age and had no one to help advocate for me.
No, I'm not really that devoted to anything.
The kid's future is at stake with the legislation these GOP phonies are constantly pushing to exclude and shame her. I don't think it's at all unreasonable to loop her into the process of protesting and fighting back at a young age.
What's disgusting is when politicians use children in the abstract as fuel for their own campaigns, as the entire GOP is doing all the time. They prey on the ignorance of their base, and use anonymous people who can't defend themselves as cudgels; that's very different from what this parent is doing.
Didn't read the article but I agree. A kid thst age shouldn't have a defined gender or sexuality.
My niece seemed to be lesbian for some years, and we were ok with it. She recently said she actually likes boys.
Nobody pushed her to do anything or say anything, or represent any political group or social cause. She chose by herself 100% of the time. Nobody guided her or said anything to her. Her mother just listened and said "whatever makes you happy".
I can't believe this woman is involving her child in politics like this.
The difference here is that children often lack a concept of sexuality, because they don't feel sexual attraction yet. That liking someone or being attracted to someone is two different things, is something children usually learn in puberty.
But children very well understand, the social constructs we create for boys and girls, and can express whether they feel that fitting them or not.
Finally you said:
This is exactly what the issue is about. Let the children use the bathroom they feel most comfortable with and not impose a gender and sexuality on them.
Whether or not you fit the social construct doesn't determine whether you're male or female. You're putting the cart so far in front of the horse it's about to lap it.
But the bathrooms are not "male bathrooms" and "female bathrooms". They're "Men's" and "Women's" washrooms. Which are determined by the social construct.
Toilet Wars
Those "politics" this woman is "involving her child" in are actively seeking to harm her child. The child is fully involved already even if she was left at home, because the GOP can't keep themselves out of children's pants.
Just because you're using the same word (involve) it doesn't mean it has the same semantics.
She is exposing and labeling her children herself. She's probably telling her kids what to feel and what they are. At that age a kid isn't like "Mother I have become transexual, we need to fight the Republicans, bring me to the nearest politician".
Don't get your kid involved in politics, don't tell your kids they are transgender, don't you dare giving them surgery for their gender....... let them grow and figure it out themselves. Just be supportive and loving. You can fight for them, but don't get them involved in something that isn't necessarily permanent to them.
That's a lot of assumptions you've just made about this random mother and child you know nothing about.
It's a kid. Do you think a kid knows what transexual means without an adult telling them? Or what a politician or laws mean? Or that the politician was going to be there? Did the kid tell the mother what to say?
Please explain to me how this could have happened, a likely scenario, in which the mother didn't push this on the child.
You wouldn't know what transexual means if you hadn't been told or read or heard about it somewhere. That is as true of adults as it is of children. What you seem to be implying is that a child could not possibly understand the concept, and that is where we clearly disagree.
You don't give children enough credit. Children are capable of understanding how they are different from others, even if they don't have the words to describe it. They can understand that there are people with authority who make the rules, even if they don't know the details. They are able to recognize when things are unfair and feel indignant about it, even if they're unsure of why or how.
The mother can give her child the words to describe how they feel, the details of the world we live in, explain the whys and hows of it, and the child is capable of comparing that to what they know and thinking for themselves. Children are impressionable because of their lack of prior knowledge with which to make that comparison, but that does not mean they lack agency.
It is certainly possible that this mother manipulated her child, put words in her mouth, shielded her from information that could provide a basis for comparison, but that is an assumption for which you have no evidence except that you can't imagine the alternative.
The alternative being that this mother raised her child lovingly, taught them all they could, trusted them with information from other sources, trusted them to make their own judgements with their guidance, and supported them when they came to their own conclusions.
So, the kid read the newspaper and asked to go there?
Don't know and it doesn't matter. The point is the kid, if informed properly and given the choice to go or not to go, is capable of making that choice.
Kids know what they are.
I'm glad you feel comfortable with agreeing with no information. That shows real courage that does.
An anecdote of any specific individual is really not particularly helpful. Some kids very solidly identify and some do not. Externally it's sometimes ambiguous but also sometimes it can be incredibly obvious you aren't dealing with just a temporary exploration.
A lot of trans parents of those who are very solidly trans generally have their proof in certain ways. If trying a different gender presentation suddenly stops a child from being painfully shy, fidgeting and having emotion regulation problems... Often that's your clue that it's a need not a want.
I can also understand the parent's desire to put a human face on the issue. Very often trans issues are talked about in the abstract or treated like a political token to be traded. The human cost is hidden from veiw. It can be overall a very dehumanizing experience. I have reached out to transphobes who just never met one of us before and while some of them have settled on a very misguided "Well you're just one of the good ones... Not the bad evil slutty bad ones" you can tell that at least there's at least a crack in their armor through which the idea of human empathy can reach.
But it is helpful, as sometimes the pressure on someone who has "come out" is immense the other way. That if they back away from the controversial identity they declared, then they rose a fuss over nothing. It should be emphasized that people can be flexible with core pieces of their identity. Also, in my opinion, that they don't need to pick just one or the other because of some select preferences they have that are incongruous with one choice or the other.
It's definitely a case inside the trans community that we recognize there is a lot of external pressure from the general atmosphere of doubt regarding trans peoples convictions that incentivizes people to stick to their guns.
But that pressure ultimately doesn't come from inside, that is a force exerted from outside. "Being bad for the movement" internal policing is a fear reaction born out of being under someone else's heel and trying to do what you can to stop the boot coming down. Cis hegemony is lining up to use the case of detransitioners to limit everyone else's medical and social options. Yes, there are some not particularly great trans people who look at detransitioners as essentially a threat to us all... but the general concensus of the community is that if our ethics become shit because outsider pressure destroys our culture by forcing us to eat our own then we have already failed.
The end goal inside the trans community of folks is always comfort and happiness even if that means someone walks back out the door having come to the conclusion they aren't trans. If we have a goal it is in part we want to lower the social cost of experimentation so that identity can be freely explored regardless of what identity you find. There isn't a lot of harm in taking a year to understand yourself a bit better. Ideally there shouldn't be any harm in taking a gender rumspringa and figuring out if maybe you're a little bit non-binary or something. That is real freedom. It's all the bloody idiots who don't get the basics who make it about there being massive stakes and a bullet dodged because they only think in terms of medical transition.
To our eyes it's everybody else who wants to make doing that somehow "political". It can't just be about what makes us feel like we're actually living at 100 percent because we have to fight tooth and nail just to exist.
Yeha, but how do you know if it is something permanent or not for the kid? You don't know, at that age they are fluid in these regards. So why frame them as "transexual" if they like having long hair or play with "girly" toys.
When I was a kid I thought I was a girl, I would always refer to myself with femenine terminology until I was like 7. If my parents pushed the idea of being transexual instead of letting me figure out that I was actually a boy who likes girls, I'd probably be very fucked up today.
I'm really against telling a kid what they are or allowing them to change their bodies permanently. Once they turn 18, they'll be able to make these choices with a better understanding and perspective. A 10yo kid doesn't know shit, they barely understand the world (in general), that's why they can't make choices like having sex with adults, getting pregnant, having tattoos, consuming drugs or alcohol, gambling... the list goes on. They aren't mentally prepared for these decisions.
I understand that it is important to preach love to others, but don't solidify these ideas in your kids just to make a political point. They may feel later that they can't change because they became the face of this issue.
Don't tell a kid what they are, just tell them they can be whatever they want to be, but permanent choices only at 18, once they have more perspective and understanding. That's it.
First off nomenclature "Trans sexual" is pretty outdated terminology that no longer is used in the DSM for kind of good reasons.
Also generally speaking gender presentation is independent of actual gender. It's a common mistake made but what toys kids play with and how they like to dress has very little to do with identity and is only at best tangentially related. The idea that "Little Timmy likes Barbies get him to a gender clinic" is going to actually render anything other than a "some kids like Barbies" response is just anti trans hysteria.
Gender questioning is a known phase of development that may or may not stick particularly at a young age like seven. Heck gender questioning is something anyone can go through at any point in one's life and you may come out of it realizing that nope, you are actually cis. Inside the trans community we advocate for adults a good experimental phase by degrees and not to look at medical transition as the first potential solution until you feel solid in knowing yourself better.
For a kid a regular questioning period is around a few months to a year long. If they basically are consistent by the end of that year the evidence is that there's roughly a 95% chance that will be consistent over the next 5 years... With a little wobbling between binary and non-binary trans identities to be accounted forhttps://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9936352/#:~:text=Five%20years%20after%20an%20initial,back%20to%20binary%20trans%20identities. With trans people in general there's usually something seemingly unrelated that gets fixed by a successful social transition. Anxiety and depression can sometimes have physical symptoms. In trans accepting environments Social transition can target the root causes of stress so usually you can physically recognize the difference in someone suddenly flourishing...
Also 10 year olds do not make permanent body changes. If you are taking puberty blockers at age 10 the chances are better that you are doing so because you are experiencing precocious puberty. In Canada where I am treatment options for trans kids are limited to blockers so they can basically watch the kid. If you have a child who has a consistent identity over a span of years then they might recommend horomone treatments at age 16 to go through a puberty. This is done only with parental consent but requires a team including a social worker, psychiatrist/psychologist and endocrinologist and a pediatrician who basically have monitored the kid for several years. The first surgeries aren't available until legal adulthood at 18. There are no "children of 10 making unilateral decisions to change their bodies"- its a child of 16 and a panel of about 6 adults (assuming two legal guardians) doing a risk assessment and long term life planning that can be vetoed by any participant at any time.
Even when the door is open for medical help for trans kids it's still stacked against trans kids transitioning. Kids in the system have to stick to their guns against a lot of forces that look at them as a legal risk for suing the system for any permanent damages. It's less risky for institutions generally to just not intervene in natural puberty so they set a very high burden of proof to be absolutely sure beyond all reasonable shadow of a doubt that the kid is gunna be fine. If you hear anyone talking about it being as easy as just scheduling an appointment quite frankly they are full of shit.
For me the problem is that parents can sabotage their questioning period by steering them. Just let them be. For me, this mother taking her kids to something political like this is steering and not letting the kid figure things out themselves.
I mean... Is it though? The kid and others like her regardless of how she might identify in the future is going to be impacted from kindergarten onwards by the laws being voted on. She may have just been there to speak with someone representing her and her parents fight with words of encouragement. It sounds from the article like Republican representive just approached these two just sort of assuming she was a cis kid being brought in as part of the "parental rights" crowd and he initiated the encounter blindly not finding the presense of a cis child in chambers particularly unusual.
I actually tend to see a lot of youngsters given anti trans signs to shake that they are probably too young to understand and probably enforce a lot more restrictions on how free that child feels to be themselves than any politically active trans parent fighting to not have to pick up their lives and retreat like a refugee to a non-hostile state where they have to build their support networks again from scratch.
There are very real stakes in this fight for families.
Stakes are real, but still, don't use children for politics.
People understand what a kid is without having to expose them to the world as trans at such a young age.
Did they really change this politician's mind?
"Expose them to the world as trans"? I don't know if their intention was to make the news but the article doesn't frame this as a carefully constructed political stunt. They weren't exactly storming the chambers their parents could have been there to speak on their behalf and just couldn't leave the kid with a sitter for all we know. They were also waiting in line to speak to a Democratic senator... Probably for a heartfelt thank you. This confrontation seems entirely accidental.
Also... Why would there be any particular change to this kid's gender journey just because this happened? This idea that we should be cloistered away where hopefully we will revert to a cis identity because we are just being influenced astray somehow is still assuming that being trans is somehow a failure state. You seem to believe some perceived pressure will cause them to somehow double down on their convictions to fight the tide as a targeted minority and is going to damage the child... Bit Gender doesn't work like that. We don't pretend to our genders solely due to spite. We don't do what we do to strictly perform for other people's benefit. Most of us know exactly what that is like and it is quite frankly fucking exhausting and untenable on any long term. Kids know they can detransition at any point because even if their parents are accepting they all have contact with adults who keep trying to "correct" them and they know that being openly trans isn't going to be a cakewalk. I know trans kids who are 4 years old that already intimately understand these concepts.
The reaction of the politician definitely did not show any potential for him to change his mind. That he felt attacked by them just saying "My kid is trans and we're not here to support you" is telling about how people like this react to trans people but we pretty much know they are hypocrites. This one just didn't have a canned response ready to save face. This isn't really news, it's just a more bald faced transphobic reaction than usual.
If you didn't read the article your comment is worthless and contributes nothing.
I didn't have to read the article to see that this mother told her kids what to do and how to feel.
And that's why your opinion is merit less.
So her kids read the news and said "mother, we need to act, take me there so we can teach this politician a lesson"?
i mean, it's cool that your family supported your niece by giving her time and avoiding assumptions, but that doesn't mean that children never have a sense of their gender or preferences, never have political opinions, or aren't affected by politics.
look at Greta Thunberg.
if your niece had wanted to advocate for herself in a political way, how do you imagine your family would have responded? would you have been supportive?
If she has the initiative, sure. In this case it was the mother who chose to take her kids there to say to everyone "Hey look, my kids are Trans, look at them".
Just let them grow and label themselves. At that age these things are not written in stone.
fair enough. i appreciate your response! i think i had misunderstood your meaning.
Using your 8 year old in any argument is awful, but here it is also stupid. The mother realizes that the child might still change her mind on this, right? Like it is not a for life decision she made at 8 years old.
Doing what the mother is doing and making her into an activist might back her into a corner of being a girl if she might not want to in the future.
How tf. is it making a child into an activist?
"You have an issue you feel uncomfortable about, and feel your safety is threatened? let's talk with a democratic representative, so they better understand you." Is not "activism". It is normal political process in a democracy and it should be endorsed, especially for children. They have rights too and they have opinions too and since they cannot voice their opinion in elections it is all the more important that they can be heard by politicians. And there the bar is also different. A child cannot be expected to form a conscise political argument, leave alone lobby for it, what would be activism. But children have legitimate concerns that need to be heard nonetheless.
By this definition raising any issue with any politician is "activism". Also who the fuck would deny a child to change its mind as it grows up?
Look at it differently.
Your child is trans.
Two competing politicians have differing policies. One is against trans people, one supports trans people. Which politician would you be inclined to support?
Would you discuss these issues with your child? If so, would you bring your child to meet the politician who is "fighting for her"?