UK Politics
General Discussion for politics in the UK.
Please don't post to both !uk_politics@feddit.uk and !unitedkingdom@feddit.uk .
Pick the most appropriate, and put it there.
Posts should be related to UK-centric politics, and should be either a link to a reputable news source for news, or a text post on this community.
Opinion pieces are also allowed, provided they are not misleading/misrepresented/drivel, and have proper sources.
If you think "reputable news source" needs some definition, by all means start a meta thread. (These things should be publicly discussed)
Posts should be manually submitted, not by bot. Link titles should not be editorialised.
Disappointing comments will generally be left to fester in ratio, outright horrible comments will be removed.
Message the mods if you feel something really should be removed, or if a user seems to have a pattern of awful comments.
!ukpolitics@lemm.ee appears to have vanished! We can still see cached content from this link, but goodbye I guess! :'(
view the rest of the comments
LFF yet again put the cart before the horse.
The problem, as they acknowledge, is that power is held in a minority of swing seats. It isn't only Labour and the Tories that benefit from this, but those voters as well.
But if Labour put voting reform in to their manifesto - and for it to be a day 1 issue they would have to - all it takes is for the Tories to run the sort of negative campaign we saw with the AV referendum, and every election since, in those swing seats for Labour to not win, and not be able to make the change.
The only route to electoral reform unfortunately seems to be a second Labour term. The theory being that it would be harder to run the sort of negative campaign the Tories would do, after a successful first term.
Or, via a coalition agreement, and instead of having a referendum - because parliament does not need one to decide how it's members are elected - just enact the reform.
If Labour put it in their 2024 manifesto, it would be too easily defeated.
I keep hearing this argument a lot. A very similar story with reversing Brexit. Educating the public is key to a successful result. Where as I agree with the Brexit case, I disagree with the PR voting. There are polls that show 70% of those asked that they want electoral reform. Adding this as an election is called would stop any organisations forming a campaign against it. Labour have a mission statement released. They do not have a manifesto pledge yet. There is an overwhelming desire from the Labour membership for PR voting. It would not be an unreasonable thing to do.
And more so, I feel this needs to be kept in the limelight to remind Labour that it is an item that is high on the voters want lists.
Sure Labour could add it, and yes 70%+ do support it, but you're ignoring the fact that tories don't need to convince >50% that electoral reform isn't needed, they only need to convince enough people to swing the vote in swing seats to keep themselves in power. That's maybe a few 100k people across the entire country, much much less than 50% of the electorate.
Bluntly, it doesn't matter what people who are already voting Labour want. I live in one of the safest Labour seats in the country, policies that turn a 25k majority in to a 26k majority are meaningless.
People who are already progressive leaning, if voting in a tory target seat, are likely to vote tactically against the Tories, regardless of party or manifesto (Lab, Lib, or Green).
So you're back to tory swing voters, and if they care about it. This is precisely why we need electoral reform, but it's precisely the thing that stops it.
The priority order must be
And if we get the Tories out and Starmer doesn't announce it for the next election in 2028, what would be the point of voting Labour then?
Depends on where you live.
If you can vote for a party with ER in their manifesto, and doing so doesn't risk a tory government, then absolutely do it.
If you can't, you've got to make a choice.
I live in a very Labour dominant area. My MP is a total waste of space. I am going to pinch really tight on my nose when I vote the next time around.
I mean if you genuinely live in a labour dominant area, you can vote for whomever you like, unless the polls change drastically.
It's not like it will suddenly swing Tory at the next election, with no warning.
I think we have all seen that there is no guarantees with politics these days. So no, that is not an option if I want to remove the Tories. Give me PR voting then I will vote for what I want, rather than what I don't want, which is the case currently.
I think you can even position it as a continuation 0f the ideas that a lot of people's Brexit vote was based on. Parliamentary sovereignty requiring it to actually be representative of the population's opinion. A higher quality parliament for a parliament with greater responsibilities.