I could maybe understand the criticism if Russia had made further gains, but you have to keep in mind that Ukraine has liberated 74,443 km² or 28,743 square miles since the start of the invasion. The offensive may not have had the effect that many hoped for after their earlier successes but they are facing defensive positions that have been set up and fortified over months. It will take some time to force a breakthrough and they are still constantly chipping away at the frontline. It's a good thing that they are advancing carefully and not just sending expendable waves of untrained soldiers like the Russians do.

[–] kae@lemmy.ca 38 points 1 year ago (3 children)

It's an interesting product of a western world that hasnt really seen war in 70 years. It's always been far away.

We seek instant gratification, when in reality these are people's lives. It should move slowly, especially against heavily mined positions. I'm wondering if we'll see much progress until the F-16s enter the field to gain air support for the ground troops.

[–] gary_host_laptop@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 year ago (3 children)

a western world that hasnt really seen war in 70 years

Do TV stations in the West don't show the war they produce? Because as far as I know we haven't stopped having wars where the West is involved since at least 200 years, so I'm not really sure I follow you there. Afghanistan doesn't count or what?

[–] rammer@sopuli.xyz 4 points 1 year ago

They showed what the US government wanted them to see.

[–] kae@lemmy.ca 4 points 1 year ago

Might be a play on the word "see" here.

Wars are distant things to North America. A product that is viewed only through glass or a screen. There has never been conventional war on modern north American soil, so it is something people go to, but not a devastation that really affects day to day life.

I'd liken the attitude more to Hollywood movies: an export of American (US) culture.

So the understanding that this is people's literal homes. That life is finite, and war is atrocious is disconnected. I can watch Saving Private Ryan, Band of Brothers, Black Hawk Down, etc. to get a taste of war, but when I'm done with it, I want it to resolve and be over.

That's not possible for Ukrainians. Their country is still occupied. The devastation on their land will continue for decades.

Even if they crash through the lines next week, and sweep aside Russian defences like dust there are decades of rebuilding and de-mining ahead.

The cultural West must be willing to be in that journey every step of the way, or we risk another radicalized generation in the future that heard the promises, but lived the broken actions.

All in my opinion, of course, from the safety of my home.

[–] HobbitFoot@thelemmy.club 3 points 1 year ago

Sure it has, but it has mainly seen it through the lens of the USA. The USA has been able to overpower other militaries on such an extreme scale that people think a war should be over in a week.

Most of the deaths were saw in Iraq and Afghanistan were from an insurgency fighting an occupying force. It wasn't the same as two industrial nations fighting. No one really covered the Iran-Iraq War, so the closest experience would likely be Korea.

[–] DigitalTraveler42@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

It's their entitlement that is causing them to demand instant gratification, to people like this the war is an "inconvenience" and every additional minute they have to deal with the reality of this extremely important war it's a sign that they're not getting their gratification sated. We're all struggling and making sacrifices and the entitled among us are far less willing to participate in that struggle and make those sacrifices.

[+] monk@lemmy.unboiled.info -13 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Instant gratification?? How about instant, decisive and meaningful support? Day 1, tanks have crossed the border and are advancing towards Kiyv? Close all borders, halt all trade, threaten to nuke Moscow unless they leave by Day 3, nuke Moscow on day 3.

Instead, the western world offers thoughts, prayers and excuses, with only occasional tanks here and there in between, months and years too late, making it worse for literally everyone. So when people that are watching Ukraine been helped just enough to save the helpers' faces, suffering through the bloodshed unfolding for a year+, and said people are not willing to normalize the shameful history page they're living through... I think it's neither fair nor productive to accuse them of seeking instant gratification.

Damn, if everybody really demanded instant gratification, democracies worked and politicians complied, we would've been talking about the war in past tense.

[–] OutlierBlue@lemmy.ca 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It's almost like no one wants to start a global thermonuclear war that annihilates our species. I'm glad the actual people in charge are able to see the shades of grey you can't.