this post was submitted on 14 Nov 2023
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Admitting Hamas is holding civilians hostage isn't the win you think it is.
What makes you think OP is pro-Hamas?
No one with half a brain is pro hamas. This conflict isn’t a binary.
It’s possible to think killing civilians is wrong, no matter who is doing it.
I am so tired of hearing anti-Semite during all of this. Being Jewish does not shield anyone from the consequences of their actions, or the actions of their government or people. It's not a get out of jail free card.
Does 'criticizing the UN and the West for doing nothing to enforce peace' include criticizing them for creating the conflict in the first place?
They're sure not trying to criticise them, are they?
No one is winning in this situation.
I'm kind of confused by this comment. I think Hamas has been pretty open about the fact that they have hostages and I haven't heard anyone attempt to argue that they didn't take hostages or don't still have some. There have been videos on many news sources either published by Hamas themselves featuring hostages angry at the government for dropping bombs where they are and I have seen videos published by mainstream news sources showing the release of some hostages by Hamas. I'm also confused about the framing of this being an attempt by OP to "win" something.
From my perspective, ending the carnage and lifting the illegal siege would be a win both for all the innocent Palestinian men, women, and children whose lives are in jeopardy and the innocent Israeli civilians whose lives are also on the line due to the IDF's wanton recklessness with innocent lives in general. I would also consider it a win if the Israeli people do what the majority of Israelis have been wanting to do and rid themselves of the menace that is Benjamin Netanyahu and his extremist right-wing Likud party so the people can get back to the work of ensuring equal rights of all people in the area regardless of race to lay the groundwork for a modern nation not constantly at war with itself. What are you trying to win?
I'm talking more about how they're quite openly using their own people as human shields, and don't seem to care particularly much if they get hurt.
This phrase is the most ridiculous "get out of jail free" card I have ever witnessed a genocidal regime attempt to deploy. It doesn't make sense at all. The IDF murdered 4000 children because they claim Hamas typically stands behind people, therefore bombing any civilian anywhere has some chance to also get someone from Hamas hiding behind them? Almost 11,000 Palestinians dead and many times more being sent on a death march because Hamas only exists standing behind all Palestinians who live in Gaza oooooooor the West Bank which is occupied by the IDF and ostensibly governed by the Palestinian Authority who oppose Hamas? Would you be ok with the police shooting through your family because the criminal they were after ran behind them to use as cover? Would you still be ok with it if they just had a suspicion that the criminal was hiding behind your family because that's what they generally do and won't even confirm if they actually were? If it's not ok to do that to your family but it is ok to do to an innocent Palestinian family, why is that?
You could just as easily have written a mini diatribe about how Hamas shouldn't be building bases under hospitals, but instead you go after Israel for trying to get at them.
Why is that?
Since you've avoided directly responding to me again, I'll assume that you've ceded your previous two arguments. Keep them coming. Israel isn't even trying to make sense, they are just relying on group identity and reactionary tendencies.
Because Benjamin Netanyahu went against the democratic will of the people of Gaza to install Hamas into leadership and prevent all future elections to severely impede the legal process of establishing a secular Palestinian state. Israel is and has been in control of this situation. Israel has the power to decide whether or not the occupied Palestinians will ever have rights in their own land, and Palestinians lack the power to decide anything for Israel or even for themselves. This is not an evenly matched "both sides" situation. Hamas is there to be Israel's excuse to ethnic cleanse the land they want to seize because they can successfully convince people that every man, woman, and child of Palestinian ethnicity is synonomous with Hamas and therefore is a valid target.
The IDF just claimed that a calendar with the days of the week written on it in arabic was a list of Hamas guards right on CNN when every arabic reader could see through the lie immediately. The IDF makes false claims all the time, so I won't believe their claim of the Hamas HQ as valid until they provide actual evidence. This being the case, if they know where the Hamas HQ is, why not send special forces to go execute a strike as a normal modern nation would do? Why instead kill civilians at such high rates it would make more sense if they were deliberately trying to avoid hitting Hamas as the IDF themselves admitted to at least a 70% civilian casualty rate with more realistic estimates by objective bodies being closer to 90% civilian casualties? Why are they bombing everything that could sustain life in Gaza if not to force the entire population out so they can seize the land as they've always been very open about wanting to do? Why install a bunch of crazies, refuse to negotiate with any Palestinians because of the Hamas they installed, and then harass and murder the civilian population in the Gaza strip for years so that they would be certainly eliminated in the long term unless they risk fighting back in the short term?