this post was submitted on 07 Nov 2023
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Is there any evidence socialism can actually work at scale? What if capitalism is the best we got?
It's crazy that people can't even imagine doing things differently than capitalism.
Can you point me towards a particular chapter or book where he wrote about capital as a god? It sounds intriguing.
I think it's more that the attempts so far haven't been very promising
I was talking about communism
It's fine
You're being self defeating if you think democratically deciding what to use society's productive forces will always be worse than Elon Musk using his government contract money to buy twitter so they stop making fun of him. Every example of socialism being applied at scale is evidence that it works. In the 20th century the greatest reduction of poverty in the world happened in the USSR. In the 21st century the same thing but China. Even against the headwinds of the largest and most powerful empire in human history having a genocidal desire to destroy them.
I think the fact that the USSR is not around is evidence that perhaps socialism does not work at scale. If its unable to last how can you consider that working? People in the USSR had a very hard life due to the downfall of socialism. Can you provide me any example of socialism currently that works at scale in a multiethnic country that does not rely on others for military protection?
It's funny how you are praising China right now despite it's heavy capitalistic nature. I bet if china collapsed you would say that wasn't real socialism either.
I think the fact that John F Kennedy didn't get reelected is evidence that perhaps he wasn't a very good president.
my evidence that a thing is bad is that when you take it away things turn to shit
Are you one of those "norway can only have healthcare because they're all white" people? Why would having more than one ethnicity in a country make doing things harder or easier? Not to avoid the question, China.
I think Norway works because its a small country that is culturally and ethnically homogenous and relies on others for military defense. It's pretty easy to have extensive social programs in that environment but it's not indicative of it working at scale. China is 90%+ chinese so I'm not sure China qualifies as an answer to that question.
Why do you use these euphemisms when you mean 'all white'? It's such a tedious exercise when it's already clear where you're coming from.
And you're not answering the question. I asked you why you think having 'racial purity' in a country makes it easier and better to run. You restated that you think it's the case. Elaborate.
I didn't say all white because I don't believe it has to be all white, I think ethnic homogeneity allows groups to forgo a lot of issues that come from having different people with different values all amongst each other. I don't think that should be very controversial. If you don't believe me, go look at the most successful social policies are mostly racially homogenous. You can shut your eyes and pretend like it's not the case but it's not very helpful to the conversation at hand.
Can you please for example tell me what black people care about differently than white people?
Those things that don't follow from racism and its history, of course. This is about your premise. I'm trying to uncover why and how you think different races are different from each other such that they can't get along in the same society and we should "go back from where we're from" if things were going to run as smoothly as possible.
Are you denying that different cultures have different values? Why do you think ethnic groups have battled so much throughout history?
Answer a question with an answer, please.
What are black values? What are white values? Where do they differ?
I don't have to answer your reductionist questions. Be mature and be able to discuss ideas without sperging out
What am I leaving out that you would require to answer the question? If your objection is that it is reductive. You say people of different races have conflicting values. Why can't I ask what they are?
Are you denying that different cultures have different values, that may sometimes conflict?
Yes. Now demonstrate the opposite with the example I provided or one of your own choosing.
You're crazy and ignorant of history.
You shouldn't need history to make your point.
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Lol the best we got... like we can't come up with something new or try something different. Please. Capitalism is in place because the people in power love it. It's the best system for them to continue to suck everything and everyone dry.
whats a better solution that has actually shown historically to be able to last
I believe that socialism doesn't work at scale, but it doesn't need to. I'm all for making smaller communities. Then socialism does work.
so would you be against making the USA a socialist country?