this post was submitted on 30 Oct 2023
71 points (89.9% liked)
Europe
8484 readers
1 users here now
News/Interesting Stories/Beautiful Pictures from Europe ๐ช๐บ
(Current banner: Thunder mountain, Germany, ๐ฉ๐ช ) Feel free to post submissions for banner pictures
Rules
(This list is obviously incomplete, but it will get expanded when necessary)
- Be nice to each other (e.g. No direct insults against each other);
- No racism, antisemitism, dehumanisation of minorities or glorification of National Socialism allowed;
- No posts linking to mis-information funded by foreign states or billionaires.
Also check out !yurop@lemm.ee
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
There are anti-zionists who are also antisemites, but anti-zionism isn't antisemitism itself. Try to have a nuanced conversation about such a heated topic... Lately i've been seeing people just straight up deny antisemitic anti-zionists even exists. And obviously the people who think they are the same thing. It's like people are suddenly unable to understand the concept of venn diagrams.
The people who proudly claim themselves "anti-zionist" IRL are almost always anti-semites if you scratch the surface. Not because anti-zionism is inherently so, but because the term has become a dog-whistle for "I watched too many conspiracy youtube videos".
Also it's a weirdly religiously charged word to use; we don't use a specific word for Russia's goals for Ukraine or China's goals for Tibet or Taiwan. So of course the use of a religiously charged word begets accusations of religious persecution.
"I am against Israel's apartheid state and illegal colonization of the West Bank" -> perfectly sane take
"I am anti-zionist" -> oh my god what kind of cookadoodledoo rant is this motherfucker about to get into
So yeah, I'd stay clear of "zionism" as a concept entirely. While it is an integral part of the history of Israel, it is not necessary to understand that to criticize Israel's actions in the 21st century. And if you're going to pull put the "but the zionists" card, you better know about domestic Israeli politics a lot better than I do (which if you don't have a reasonable reason to do so like being Israeli, is again a red flag for an obsession with "the jews").
The problem is at least in Germany that the nuance is literally banned by the government. Demonstrations in support of the Palestinian victims of Israels attacks and blockade are getting banned in fear of antisemitism. Educational entities proclaim that criticism of the shape of the Israeli state are considered antisemitism as much as demands to give back the land of the displaced Palestinians, as these are considered "attacks on the existential right of Israel".
I tried to find that term and it doesn't seem to exist in the english languaged discourse. Also i couldn't find anything that actually gives specific states a specific right to exist. People have the right to exist and be sovereign, but this is not tied to any specific state. And from my understanding the sovereignity of one people cannot be used as a reason to take away the sovereignity of another people.