this post was submitted on 02 Aug 2023
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[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 42 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Let's hear the defense, Tankies. Tell us why this is a good thing.

[–] Marxine@lemmy.ml 10 points 1 year ago (5 children)

No tankie worth their salt would say it's a good thing, lol. Being anti-NATO doesn't immediately mean someone is pro-Putin.

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 38 points 1 year ago (2 children)

There are lots of pro-Putin Tankies. Lots and lots.

[–] bjoern_tantau@swg-empire.de 15 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Funnily enough that's what the right-wing nuts and left-wing nuts in Germany have in common. We're living in the strangest timeline.

[–] sadreality@kbin.social 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Propaganda good enough to blur any lines

[–] Marxine@lemmy.ml 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

(I'm implying that you, as many others, equate "tankies" with "communists")

That's why I restricted to only those worth their salt. Russian-right-wing larpers aren't welcome in any communist group.

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 16 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Putin isn't a communist. So no.

[–] Marxine@lemmy.ml 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Afaik it's consensus for communists to be both anti-NATO and anti-Putin, as is my case. But since lots of people now just use "tankie" as a derogatory term for "communist" instead of "Putin supporter and Russian supremacist", I felt like making the distinction was a good call.

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

No, I definitely did not mean communist. I am a socialist, but I am sympathetic to communist ideas.

[–] Marxine@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Then I'm glad to be your acquaintance, comrade. We might have different ideas on how things could be better and how to fight for them, but we definitely know what the real issues are.

[–] SloganLessons@kbin.social 12 points 1 year ago

I think the others missed that memo

[–] sadreality@kbin.social 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Just other pro genocidal super stars of 1900s?

[–] Marxine@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Are you implying killing Nazi soldiers during ww2 was bad?

[–] DarkGamer@kbin.social 4 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Killing Nazis isn't bad, allying with them before being betrayed was. Killing Nazis in self-defense isn't genocide, Holodomor was.

[–] InverseParallax@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] DarkGamer@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago

Molotov–Ribbentrop_Pact?

Yep.

[–] Marxine@lemmy.ml -4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

So by those rules you imply the whole west is genocidal and Nazist?

  • USA: genocide of it's poor, black and indigenous population (by both violence and forced poverty), anti-immigrant policies, police violence, and support for right-wing coups over the world, with Ukraine being the most notable among the recent ones
  • Canada: genocide of indigenous population, forced castration, support for right-wing coups
  • France: anti-immigrants, support for right-wing coups, exploitation and genocide of Africans
  • Australia: see USA, except for being a direct financial contributor to right-wing coups (but supporting them nonetheless)

Every western power is genocidal and imperialist, and most crises currently ongoing are way worse than that tired example you gave. Do you just care if the suffering population is white?

Also, about allying with Nazis: after WW2, who brought home Nazi high officials and gave them positions of power in their own countries again? USA and UK, if you don't remember.

[–] sadreality@kbin.social 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Nice aboutism but either way nobody is saying anything, nor is anybody worship, the US or its genocidal practices, or France for that matter, or anyone else... Tankies on the other hand suck Stalin and Mao dick as if these turds did not kill people for sport.

Why in 21st century do you need a strong alpha daddy with bad history? Why do you need a daddy at all as an adult person?

[–] Marxine@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

When someone brings Holodomor they're not even trying to understand what they're even blaming, so out of tiredness, I don't bring up the fact that the ones who ruined the farms and crops were the rich private landowners who didn't want their properties to be turned over to the state. Holodomor is a capitalist genocide in what was a communist country.

Think for a second: why would a country building an army, needing healthy adults, purposely cause a famine?

Meanwhile every western genocide is about racism, slave-labour and exploitation of the land. Every single one.

Also, nice fallacies you're throwing out there, like that ad hominem at the end, truly marvellous.

[–] sadreality@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Stalin did because he did not like free willing peasants as they were a threat to the regime. Tankie will worship Stalin and won't acknowledge the atrocity then expects to be taken seriously talking about Nazis or US or France etc...

Nobody is defended western atrocities, you are here trying to explain away Stalin's... we have not even gotten to Mao or one of your other beloved daddies.

[–] Marxine@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

That logic about Stalin destroying the farms himself doesn't even work. The country needed the farms and crops as much as any other country building an army. Are you gonna say next that he ordered the eating of babies and kicking of dogs?

I'm not Stalinist btw, but history has facts, and landowners who were having their farms taken and wanted to make the communist party's life harder are a fact. Bourgeoisie will be bourgeoisie no matter which country.

[–] sadreality@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

so taking grain from starving families for dissent control was just a price you are willing to pay?

[–] Marxine@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Starving families =/= massive landowners. The ones hit by the famine were the families working for the landowners, most of them owned no land at all. If you want to blame someone, blame rich folks being pissy about not being able to exploit families on their farms anymore

[–] sadreality@kbin.social 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You are poorly educated, I hope you say this to someone from Kazakhstan or Ukraine off line lol

[–] Marxine@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Likewise. I'd like to see how your "version of the facts" goes on the eastern countries. Have a good day.

[–] sadreality@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

If you were properly educated, you would know.

[–] Marxine@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I know about how you, all the way from the west, consuming only western media and participating in western politics, knows more about the east than eastern folks themselves. All the eastern countries and the global south know about what western people believe.

[–] sadreality@kbin.social 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

You don't know shit about me or the history of eastern Europe, clearly.

[–] BloodForTheBloodGod@lemmy.ca 2 points 1 year ago

And tankies aren't worth salt as it is.

[–] tal@kbin.social 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I'm not a tankie, but I don't think that the idea of justifying political repression in Russia is likely to be much of a challenge. The Bolsheviks justified single-party rule and their own political repressions for a long time. If you're a tankie, you're presumably already willing to accept that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanguardism

Vanguardism in the context of Leninist revolutionary struggle, relates to a strategy whereby the most class-conscious and politically "advanced" sections of the proletariat or working class, described as the revolutionary vanguard, form organizations to advance the objectives of communism.

The notion of a 'vanguard', as used by Lenin before 1917, did not necessarily imply single-party rule. Lenin considered the Social-Democrats (Bolsheviks) the leading elements of a multi-class (and multi-party) democratic struggle against Tsarism.[7] For a period after the October Revolution, the Bolsheviks (now renamed the Communist Party) operated in the soviets, trade unions, and other working-class mass organisations with other revolutionary parties, such as Mensheviks, Social-Revolutionaries and anarcho-communists, and local soviets often elected non-Bolshevik majorities.[8] Lenin did consider the Bolsheviks the vanguard insofar as they were the most consistent defenders of Soviet power (which he considered the dictatorship of the proletariat or 'Commune-state').[9] However, the situation changed drastically during the Russian Civil War and economic collapse, which decimated the working class and its independent institutions, and saw the development of irreconcilable conflicts between the Bolsheviks and their rivals. At the 10th Congress of the Russian Communist Party (Bolsheviks) in 1921, the Party made the de facto reality de jure by outlawing opposition parties and formalising single-Party rule.[10]

The impetus for having a vanguard party was used by the Bolsheviks to justify their suppression of other parties. Their rationale was that since they were the vanguard of the proletariat, their right to rule could not be legitimately questioned.