this post was submitted on 17 Oct 2023
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One pretty consistent moral among societies is that needlessly causing harm is considered wrong. Outside of lab grown, its impossible to acquire meat without grievously harming an animal. Further, the vast majority of our meat is NOT gained by hunting but instead by factory, and the conditions of meat factories are appalling and horrific. So yes, if we CAN get the nutrients we need without the consumption of meat, that is the most moral way to get our nutrition met. All that being said, even today, being able to meet all nutritional needs without any form of animal cruelty is an incredibly privileged position to be in, and we arent quite at the stage where its fair to judge others for not doing so
(edit: and I say this as a meat eater, meat is fuckin delicious and I dont want to give it up. I'm personally banking on lab grown meat becoming an economical option, at which point we have removed the ethical muddiness of it)
(Edit 2: Lmao, I ruffled the feathers of a lot of meat eaters who've likely never actually had to kill any if the animals they've eaten. I have, I still eat meat. Reality is messy, fucking own it)
Well hunting is a pain in the ass as it is. In an industrialized society we traded markets with shared goods to more specific specialties. Sure I can hunt for food because of licenses and availability but the trade off is most of the people have really good health care. At least objectively they have access to healthcare that can cure things that back in the 1500s would kill you within days.
My point is that at some point someone said "Hey I can take care of the meat portion if you take care of (insert many specialists careers)." There was no morality involved. Choosing to be vegan is fine. I think that it's easier to get certain things from animal sources. So does nature.
besides your total lack of specificity about ethical systems or societies in which they exist, your use of "needlessly" is doing a lot of work there. on the one hand it sets up a no-true-scotsman where you can always claim no need is great enough, but it also gives anyone challenging this claim a loophole the size of a walmart to walk through: just claim it's necessary.
i don't think you really understand the claim you made. worse, if you do, that means you're intentionally using vague language and intellectually dishonest tactics to persuade. this is called sophistry.
Im kinda done arguing with dumbasses in good faith about whether or not killing an animal is less ethical than not killing one. I'm a meat eater, I find meat delicious, and I ALSO recognise that most of the world isnt in a privileged enough position to NOT eat meat in order to fulfill their dietary needs. None of this takes away from the fact that killing is less ethical than not killiing
Abso-fucking-lutely based. Sometimes it's better to just call a dumbass, 'a dumbass' than engage with their bullshit sealioning.
stealing this
calling your interlocutors names is a great way to indicate you're done arguing in good faith, but you just came out and said it. too bad you don't seem capable of defending the claim you're making.
Nah, it just means you idiots arent worth the headache
more name-calling, but no defense for your position.
=D
No one's obligated to debate you. 🙄
I don't want a debate
The problem with this as your moral compass is that "needless" can mean whatever you want it to mean. It's not actually a guideline to any specific behavior
Thats a semantics arguement to a generalized statement which is special kind of stupid. I gave a detailed response to further explain why this applies to meat eating and even ended with saying we havent reached a point in society where its fair to judge others for not abandoning eating meat. Just because society has always done things a certain way, doesnt make it right or moral, slavery was the NORM until around the last couple 100 years, and now its near universally considered atrocious. Meat eating from once living animals will likely be the next once norm, now evil, societal concept. But we arent there yet
Isn't all morality subjective, rendering your comment moot?
Generally accepted morals certainly can be guidelines for behaviors.