this post was submitted on 25 Sep 2023
260 points (98.1% liked)
Europe
8484 readers
1 users here now
News/Interesting Stories/Beautiful Pictures from Europe πͺπΊ
(Current banner: Thunder mountain, Germany, π©πͺ ) Feel free to post submissions for banner pictures
Rules
(This list is obviously incomplete, but it will get expanded when necessary)
- Be nice to each other (e.g. No direct insults against each other);
- No racism, antisemitism, dehumanisation of minorities or glorification of National Socialism allowed;
- No posts linking to mis-information funded by foreign states or billionaires.
Also check out !yurop@lemm.ee
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
If you came for the comments, turn back now π
Europeans believe in freedom, as in freedom from harassment and hate speech, for everyone, for the good of everyone
Americans believe they personally should have freedom to do or say anything, even if it's hateful and incites violence, as long as they personally are "free", even if it is bad for society as a whole
These are incompatible views and no good can come of this thread
I am a European and I do believe in the real freedom (the one that ends where someone elses starts) but I don't see how this applies whatsoever here, plasphemy laws in 2023 is nuts and shouldn't be a thing!
"Inciting a riot" is a thing
"inciting a riot" means, at the very least, telling people to go and riot. Burning a book is not, by any stretch of the definition "inciting a riot" (even though it may result in some people rioting).
If you acknowledge that doing it may cause a riot, how does that not fit into a loose definition of "inciting a riot"? I'm trying to think of a more innocent act that might start a riot that would obviously not be "inciting a riot", and I'm struggling to come up with a counterexample.
It might fit a loose definition but it doesn't fit the legal definition (speaking about the US here). These requirements are known as the Brandenburg test. (Brandenburg v. Ohio, 395 U.S. 444 (1969).)
"First, incitement to violence requires proof that the defendant intended to incite violence or riot (whether or not it actually occurs). Careless conduct or "emotionally charged rhetoric" does not meet this standard. Second, the defendant must create a sort of roadmap for immediate harmβusing general or vague references to some future act doesn't qualify as imminent lawless action. Finally, the defendant's words must be likely to persuade, provoke, or urge a crowd to violence. Profanity or offensive messaging alone isn't enough; the messaging must appeal to actions that lead to imminent violence".
.