this post was submitted on 30 Sep 2023
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Are you suggesting violence?
Hopefully.
Fascists don't understand anything else. Proof: History
Communists can't be fascist, they have a thin veil of very conditional worker solidarity! They're inherently good! Stalin was just misunderstood.
Ironically, the whole point of Leninism was that Russia wasn't wealthy enough to be communist, and thus had to have state capitalism watched by a "vanguard party" (who are in theory supposed to keep the capital in check), so not even the Russians believed they did communism.
Nothing has ever been really tried, other people don't exist they're all projections of your mind.
I think NATO is a tool for capitalist imperialism and therefore fascist. Should we use violence against NATO?
You obviously cannot use your brain, otherwise you wouldn't say such a stupid thing, but yes. If they were fascist then we should use violence to make them go away. Tiny problem. NATO is not that and you are an idiot for saying such a thing with seriousness.
Thanks for the joke and letting me answer it seriously.
If NATO is supposed to be a defensive alliance, it should not operate outside of its own borders under any circumstances, yet it has done so multiple times in the past.
In theory it is an alliance of equals, but in practice it is an enforcer of the foreign policy of its most powerful member, the US. As with Russia in the USSR and the larger Warsaw Pact. If that wasn't the case, the US would have no use for NATO and would just leave, which is what many European countries would want to avoid at all costs.
The way modern weapons work, defending from within your own borders just isn't practical anymore. A simple example is those rockets constantly used for strikes in the middle east - often deployable from outside established borders.
The only true safeguard against those strikes is having a constant awareness of what's going on - for instance, someone deploying thousands of soldiers right to the edge of their border without actually crossing.
Mhm. Sure buddy.
Great rebuke.
I am not in kindergarden anymore.
I don't have the time to argue with childrens understandings of what defensive alliances are and should be.
Good night bobby
You have no argument, you know I'm right. Pathetic showing.
No, it just isn't useful for any human on planet earth to entertain your "rusSiA beST cOuNtRYE usSR gOoD Yes nATo bAD theY ONlY us pUPpeT aNd Do wAR And kIl anD maEk mE poOR :("-thoughts or even discuss anything with you.
You are discussing like ben shapiro or incel podcast hosts but without being entertaining. Good night bobby.
you know that the whole Middle East thing wasn't due to NATO?
Europeans don't want America to leave NATO? Sure wouldn't know that from talking to them.
Don’t listen to me, maybe consider a think tanks opinion. >Source But yeah, I’m the idiot. /s
You know things have gone bad when you're relying on a libertarian think tank literally founded by Charles Koch (as in, the Koch Brothers) as your source
Maybe a Lebanese source then. Maybe Venezuelan? Maybe a Marxist perspective? Oh wait, you want the neoliberalist to tell you when NATO is fascist. Good luck with your wait.
Ah yes, the Lebanese source “Tim Anderson”.
Uh…. Then he delivers a diatribe on how Stalin’s self-made famine was actually fantastic. Yes, we’ve heard all about that on Lemmy recently, thanks.
Yes, very nuanced and well reasoned “Marxist” perspective. Capitalist alliance having members in Eastern Europe: omg, so evil. Capitalist Russia controlling Eastern Europe: great, for some unexplained reason.
Capitalist NATO controlling Eastern Europe: great, for some unexplained reason.
Ah yes, great point, so clearly Russia should 'liberate' them with tanks and missiles. NATO exists precisely to stop Russia from doing to member states what they are doing in Ukraine. Countries in E. Europe were not coerced or forced into joining NATO or the EU. Nobody has any interest in invading Russia, because it would be futile and entirely useless.
Wrong. Check your NATO history.
Why don’t you tell me what you think it is instead of “wrong”?
I didn’t say “NATO was started to…” yes, it was founded to stop the Soviets from expanding and as a pact of mutual defense. Same thing. Obviously the USSR doesn’t exist now so that wouldn’t continue to be a goal.
NATO should have dissolved as an organization after it’s goal of thwarting communism from the Soviet Union was met. Because it’s real goal is capitalist hegemony it continues.
I don't see why they would do that. it's basically just an alliance of the US and EU. Are they capitalists? Sure, so what. I don't see that changing any time soon. At the same time, the usefulness of a mutual defense between the two continues. Russia's demonstrating that right now. If not for NATO, who else would they be invading soon? Belarus? Poland? Estonia? Why would NATO choose to dissolve and allow that?
Well, there’s your problem!
What's the alternative you're suggesting? What major countries who rival NATO are not capitalist? They should cancel NATO and let smaller countries be taken over by capitalist Russia because the EU is capitalist? "NATO member countries should change their economic system" isn't the same as "NATO shouldn't exist".
Degrowth
Yes you are. And i will leave it to the other people that have already told you why to continue. The mods here will probably delete this comment because I haven't been nice to you :(((
I hope not. I respect the discourse despite the insults. Maybe try to see the world from a less Americanized lens.
I am. I am not even American.
Maybe try to see the world from a lens that doesnt gobble up Propaganda
You are not immune to propaganda. Sure. The person who wants to stop the war and killing is the one influenced by propaganda./s
I guess I know what you’re trying to say, but not even remotely close to what fascism means.
I know it’s not fascism by definition, it is metaphorical. Capitalism decays into fascism.
Capitalism doesn't inherently decay into anything, it does help those who would enact fascism tho, but that is a VERY different beast.
Is it though? ;/
yes, yes it is.
Glad we don’t have anything to worry about then…
nah, it's a great big tug-o-war, if you stop pulling the other side will win
My friend NATO was started by a literal nazi, it's not fascist because it's imperialist. It's fascist because it's fascist.