this post was submitted on 20 Sep 2023
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[–] jordanlund@lemmy.one 24 points 1 year ago (36 children)

As long as the 2nd amendment is in place it's not possible to ban guns. It will not happen.

Now, that being said, if you don't like that, there is a process to fix it:

  1. Get two thirds of the House to agree on a new amendment. 290 votes out of 435. The problem with that is the House is currently struggling to get a 218 vote simple majority on basic things, like "Who is the House leader?" or "Can we fund the government?"

  2. Once you get that, then you need 67 votes in the Senate, the same body incapacitated by a 60 vote majority to overcome the filibuster placed on, well, everything. The Republicans in the Senate block everything.

  3. Assuming you get enough people for 1 and 2, now it goes to the states for ratification. You need 38 out of 50. To put that in perspective, in 2020 Joe Biden won 25 states + Washington DC. Donald Trump won 25 states. To pass a new gun amendment, you would need ALL 25 Biden states + 13 Trump states. Any Biden state that refuses to ratify means you need an extra Trump state. There are only 19 states with Democratic controlled state legislatures, which means a likelyhood of needing 19 Trump states instead of 13.

[–] GiddyGap@lemm.ee 21 points 1 year ago (19 children)

Most people are not asking to "ban guns." Most people are asking for restrictions that keep people safe, not least our school children, and a ban on military-style weapons like AR-15s. That's not unreasonable nor impossible.

[–] jordanlund@lemmy.one 6 points 1 year ago (7 children)

Not impossible with any other Supreme Court, but this one is vastly different from the one that ruled during the Assault Weapons Ban that expired in 2004.

Since then, ruling after ruling, the court has re-enforced and expanded gun rights. It's going to get ugly when they hear the AWB and high capacity bans out of California.

Here's a primer on how things have changed, I'll need to save this because it will come up again:

D.C. Vs. Heller - 2008:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_of_Columbia_v._Heller

"The handgun ban and the trigger-lock requirement (as applied to self-defense) violate the Second Amendment. The District's total ban on handgun possession in the home amounts to a prohibition on an entire class of "arms" that Americans overwhelmingly choose for the lawful purpose of self-defense. Under any of the standards of scrutiny the Court has applied to enumerated constitutional rights, this prohibition – in the place where the importance of the lawful defense of self, family, and property is most acute – would fail constitutional muster. Similarly, the requirement that any lawful firearm in the home be disassembled or bound by a trigger lock makes it impossible for citizens to use arms for the core lawful purpose of self-defense and is hence unconstitutional."

You can't ban an entire class of weapon, in this case handguns. But that would apply to ANY class, such as banning rifles, shotguns, and, yes, semi-automatic rifles.

McDonald vs. City of Chicago - 2010
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonald_v._City_of_Chicago

"the second amendment right recognized in Heller is fully applicable to the states through the due process clause of the fourteenth amendment. In so holding, the Court reiterated that "the Second Amendment protects the right to keep and bear arms for the purpose of self-defense" (id. at ___, 130 S. Ct. at 3026); that "individual self-defense is 'the central component' of the Second Amendment right"

Needed re-stating because D.C. is a unique legal entity and not a state. McDonald exists to say "Yes, states too."

Caetano v. Massachusetts - 2016
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caetano_v._Massachusetts

This is actually my favorite one of these because it goes in an unusual direction. Woman was being threatened by an abusive ex and bought a taser for protection.

MA charged her saying that tasers didn't exist at the time of the 2nd amendment, so she had no right to own one.

Enter the court:

"the Second Amendment extends, prima facie, to all instruments that constitute bearable arms, even those that were not in existence at the time of the founding" and that "the Second Amendment right is fully applicable to the States".[6] The term "bearable arms" was defined in District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008) and includes any ""[w]eapo[n] of offence" or "thing that a man wears for his defence, or takes into his hands," that is "carr[ied] . . . for the purpose of offensive or defensive action." 554 U. S., at 581, 584 (internal quotation marks omitted)."[10]

Anything you take into your hands for defense is allowed under the 2nd amendment. So, no, you don't have the right to a cruise missile or a tactical nuke, but if you can carry it, it's yours.

New York State Rifle & Pistol Association, Inc. v. Bruen - 2022
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_State_Rifle_%26_Pistol_Association,_Inc._v._Bruen

This is the recent ruling that has everyone in a tizzy. First, because for concealed carry, it converted New York from a "may issue" state to a "shall issue" state:

"The constitutional right to bear arms in public for self-defense is not 'a second-class right, subject to an entirely different body of rules than the other Bill of Rights guarantees.' We know of no other constitutional right that an individual may exercise only after demonstrating to government officers some special need."[26]

And second, it sets a new standard by which all gun laws will now be measured:

"When the Second Amendment's plain text covers an individual's conduct [here the right to bear arms], the Constitution presumptively protects that conduct. The government must then justify its regulation by demonstrating that it is consistent with the Nation's historical tradition of firearm regulation. Only then may a court conclude that the individual's conduct falls outside the Second Amendment's "'unqualified command.'"

[–] PickTheStick@ttrpg.network 1 points 1 year ago

Huh. I remember some laws in my state about knuckledusters and switchblades changing around 2017. Do you think courts would apply the logic from Caetano v Massachusetts to some of the oft-prohibited items, like 'clubs' and such?

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