this post was submitted on 07 May 2025
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"Bothsides types are indistinguishable both in form and in end-result, regardless of whether they claim to be centrists or leftists"
"This is crazy doublethink shit!"
what
... Yea, see there it is. "Bothsides types are indistinguishable [in the way they criticize my party]"
What
Don't be dense. Define 'bothsides type' that includes all subsets of the group you're talking about. I'd bet pretty penny it isn't limited to people who use the phrase 'both sides are exactly the same'.
I'm gonna guess this is pretty close: 'someone who criticizes the democrats without clearly signaling their electoral support of them'
Or, put another way:
Those who present of all major sides of an issue to be indistinguishable because they are both flawed, with the implicit or explicit exhortation to support neither, when there are obvious and important differences between the two with one being unambiguously preferable.
I mean, harm reduction is not morally optional, but criticizing the Dems without signaling electoral support is not inherently a "BOTHSIDES" reaction, excepting, say, in the immediate lead-up to an election of unusual importance wherein the only realistic options are fascism or the Dems.
When there is an immediate crisis coming up, wherein messaging is extremely important, and you choose to amplify messages that help fascists without bothering to amplify messages that damage fascists, it's difficult to see that as anything except service to fascism.
the "obvious and important differences" are obvious and important to you because you drink the left's koolaid while the right drinks your milkshake.
the reality is that the Democratic party exhausts it's voters' emotional reserves, and consequently is ineffectual at winning hearts and minds, Then they blame the public for apathy.
That is a strategy that is basically guaranteed to put fascism in power. Who knew?
The centrists knew. And when we tried to engage you in conversation about it, you ridiculed and attempted to maneuver with rhetoric, instead of truly engaging.
the funny thing about this is - or sad, maybe, I'm not sure which - is that centrists often have the emotional wherewithal to handle extreme situations. We've been dealing with extremes all of our lives. We see how they feed into each other because we actually grapple with the things others would rather blame other people for. We see that what the left is doing is ineffectual. We see that what the right is doing is vile. We act on it - actually take action, not protest - in the ways we can, in our own lives.
So.. ..if the right wins, and it really goes poorly, it'll be a fucking shit time for all of us. But it'll be beyond that - it'll be hell for you who have ridiculed others instead of growing, because not only will you have to face the physical reality, you'll have to face the psychological and emotional realities you always refused to, in the middle of everything else going to shit.
Grow, or suffer. Grow, or repeat. That is the law you are bound by, and yet you don't make a rational choice.
"If you're not with us, you're against us"
Democrats wanted everyone to shut up about how much was wrong that needed fixing so that they could win, and leftists wanted democrats to acknowledge how much was wrong that needed fixing so that they could win.
Throwing the leftists in with the right-wingers assumes that the rest of the country wasn't already feeling the pain the democrats were trying to suppress.
Lmao, here's what this reads like:
No wonder American politics has regressed into pure symbols and signs.
That is literally what a FPTP election results in, yes. I see this is still taking time to sink in.
If it had anything to do with electoralism you wouldn't be whinging about this 3 and a half years before the next election
...
First, there's no guarantee that the next election will matter at all.
Second, the issue is much deeper - namely, the exact kind of 'bothsides' bullshit that leads people to abstain from siding with the less-vile choice of two in an election will certainly lead people to abstain from siding with the less-vile choice in issues of action that require something greater than an hour of a single day of their life.
Third, why the fuck would you wait until the last minute to address an issue? If there is an outstanding issue that leftists seem to believe that losing and letting marginalized groups be murdered is preferable to picking the lesser evil, why should that not be addressed immediately instead of ten seconds before the next electoral circus?
LMFAO, get the fuck out of here with that white moderate bullshit. Are you serious?? Lol I can't get over this. It's like if you took MLK's 'the Negro's great stumbling block' quote and just removed the part about white moderates. Even he knew that the movement's greatest hurtle wasn't the actual-fucking KKK, but the democrats who continuously told them that 'now is not the time'. Lmao. Yes, both sides are bad, that's why we're fucking pointing it out so we can fix it. What an absolute dipshit revisionist you are.
Oh, did you just not understand what I was talking about? I'm pointing to your complaints about 'bothsiders' pointing to glaring issues within the democratic party. Yea, of-fucking-course now is the time to address these issues. That's why it's fucking crazy that you picked now to meme about 'bothsiders' drumming up inter-party tension well away from any of our next elections. This is when the tension needs to happen.
Fucking make up your mind lmao, is it good or bad to drum up tension about the bad shit in the democratic party, and is it good or bad right now? Do we have your permission? Is now a good time?
... because I point out that people who purity test themselves out of cooperating with potential allies over when minimal effort is required on their part will do the same thing when major effort is required on their part?
Fucking what?
Which is why he made sure to oppose LBJ, right?
But with zero interest in doing anything productive to fix it, of course.
Ironic, considering that MLK, a socialist, worked with LBJ, despite the Dems being much more gruesome and despicable then.
Guess he was just too much of a shitlib to understand politics on the enlightened level you do.
Already pointed out that criticism of the Dems isn't what's being criticized here, but whatever you need to confirm the paranoia that I'm a Fed or a warhawk or whatever it is that you've got going on.
No, because binary categories themselves are what stop insufficiently-motivated liberals like yourself from doing the right thing at all. You're the one trying to shove activists into a box and calling them right-wingers. The only one advocating for a purity test is you LMFAO. The lack of self-awareness is fucking incredible.
Only because he was already amicable to his cause. You think the democrats deserve the same charitability when they've roundly rejected ours? Besides, if they deserved any leeway previously when they were in power, they sure as fuck don't deserve it now
He worked with people who were willing to work with him - democrats are far less willing to negotiate than LBJ ever was. Maybe the next lot will be more sensible.
I don't think you are a fed, just that you're the most thumb-sounding self-described 'leftist' I've ever seen on lemmy. And no, not 'criticism of dems', just criticism directed at the dems that also apply to republicans, because that's apparently not very fair to your feelings.
lol
Lol is right
Wait, are you talking about both sides as in the political parties, or both sides as in far left and ‘centrist’ secret nazi?
Still sick of this blaming apathetic voters for the clear failure of the Democratic Party. You had mentioned that harm mitigation trumps all moral consideration of choice. That’s short term thinking, one that has gotten us in this mess. If democrats want to play chicken putting ‘their’ progressive voting base against their neoconservative principles, that is a failure on them. Their actions after losing further prove their deficit. I warned you specifically during the election what the outcome would be because of how the democrats acted.
Bruh, a third of the country sat at home and did nothing as fascism, openly stated, ran to claim all levers of power in the government. If you think voter apathy isn't a serious contribution in this issue, I don't know what the fuck to tell you.
Sorry, am I suppose to prioritize the feelies of people who abstained over the millions of marginalized people who are going to die because of this administration?
Sorry our lives aren't pure enough to be worth your fucking vote.
This was the most left-leaning Dem platform in fucking decades.
But hey, anything to avoid responsibility for voters ushering in fascism, right?
You mean the Democratic Party sat around and assumed they could further their own power grab because the American people had no choice but to vote for them. You mean the Democratic Party is currently sitting around doing nothing… wait, no—they are actively censuring their members who are talking truth to power. That’s much worse than if they did nothing at all.
If you’re going to blame someone, blame the ones responsible for fascism. Then blame the ones who gambled our future to further the agenda of their donors. The party knew they abandoned their progressive voter base. They miscalculated, and now they’ve doubled down. Fuck. Them.
I explicitly told you that the Democratic Party pushing neocon policies and pushing “vote blue no matter who” WOULD CAUSE VOTER APATHY. Voter apathy is a symptom, of direct democrat action. I told you I would vote for Harris—UNDER EXTREME DURESS.
What do you mean “the most left-leaning Dem platform in fucking decades”?
Fucking Bernie Sanders ran in 2016. Harris, against all reason and hope, stated directly that she would not change Democratic policy—the same policy that has ratcheted us to the right for decades. Biden, in his time as president, failed to achieve anything when he specifically had the windows to do it. So no. That is an outright lie.
absofuckinglutely.
Well you're just wrong about most of this
We voted, alright. it's called a vote of no confidence.