No wtf. Democracy is state that holds elections. Wtf is "owned and controlled by the people"? How are people supposed to control the government? The government is controlled by govt officials. Common people don't control shit. How can a government be owned by people? Is government even a property that can be owned? That doesn't make any sense.

[–] yucandu@lemmy.world 1 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

How are people supposed to control the government?

Through elections.

The government is controlled by govt officials.

That we elected.

How can a government be owned by people?

Through democracy.

Is government even a property that can be owned?

If I ask a friend to water my plants, do I no longer own the plants?

[–] blade_barrier@lemmy.ml 1 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

Through elections

Umm, no. Elected politicians can do whatever tf they want. There's no legal mechanism to make them fulfill the promises they made during their campaign.

That we elected

Not to mention that elected politicians aren't controlled by the people, most of the government positions aren't elected.

Through democracy

Democracy is when Government is owned by people. People own government through democracy. Great argument.

If I ask a friend to water my plants, do I no longer own the plants?

If you ask government to persecute people who break the law, do you no longer own people who break the law?

[–] yucandu@lemmy.world 1 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

Umm, no. Elected politicians can do whatever tf they want. There's no legal mechanism to make them fulfill the promises they made during their campaign.

The next election is the mechanism that makes them fulfill the promises they've made during their campaign. If your politicians aren't afraid of losing the next election, you don't live in a real democracy, you probably live in a FPTP country, and you should fix that.

Not to mention that elected politicians aren't controlled by the people, most of the government positions aren't elected.

I don't know what country you are assuming counts as the entire world with this sentence, I'm going to assume America because it's usually Americans that do that.

But even then, what is wrong with me hiring someone to hire more people?

Democracy is when Government is owned by people. People own government through democracy. Great argument.

What is your counterargument other than "no"?

If you ask government to persecute people who break the law, do you no longer own people who break the law?

You can't own people, you never did, what are you trying to ask here?

What do YOU think the people owning the means of production looks like?

[–] blade_barrier@lemmy.ml 1 points 17 minutes ago

The next election is the mechanism that makes them fulfill the promises they’ve made during their campaign

Why are you saying this? Who's the target audience of this bs? What makes you say that if it's demonstrably false? Elected politicians don't keep their promises, they just don't.

If your politicians aren’t afraid of losing the next election

Is Trump scared to loose the next election?

what is wrong with me hiring someone to hire more people?

It's perfectly fine, but unrelated to the question at hand. You don't hire politicians.

What is your counterargument other than “no”?

"No" is actually a stronger argument than yours bc you're making a positive statement here and the burden of proof is on you.

You can’t own people, you never did, what are you trying to ask here?

I dunno. I guess your initial analogy was shit that explained nothing. Don't use analogies then.

[–] BrainInABox@lemmy.ml 0 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

So not Norway, or any Western capitalist pseudo democracy.

[–] yucandu@lemmy.world 1 points 4 hours ago

Yes Norway, or any other country with proportional representation, but not FPTP democracies.

How else do you think the people can own the means of production?