this post was submitted on 23 Feb 2025
175 points (99.4% liked)

politics

20370 readers
3177 users here now

Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!

Rules:

  1. Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.

Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.

Example:

  1. Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
  2. Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
  3. No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
  4. Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
  5. No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.

That's all the rules!

Civic Links

Register To Vote

Citizenship Resource Center

Congressional Awards Program

Federal Government Agencies

Library of Congress Legislative Resources

The White House

U.S. House of Representatives

U.S. Senate

Partnered Communities:

News

World News

Business News

Political Discussion

Ask Politics

Military News

Global Politics

Moderate Politics

Progressive Politics

UK Politics

Canadian Politics

Australian Politics

New Zealand Politics

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] just_another_person@lemmy.world 79 points 5 hours ago (22 children)

Bernie is getting thousands of GOP voters at his anti-Oligarchy stops. It's not a hint, it's a fucking massive revolt in their base.

[–] athairmor@lemmy.world 43 points 4 hours ago (12 children)

There’s a lot of Republican/Trump voters that just want politicians who at least sound like they want to represent them and “fix the government.” Do that and they’ll vote for you.

Democrats since Obama have failed to convincingly do that simple thing.

Meanwhile, Republicans lie that they’ll help them and get elected. They inevitably don’t help them and blame liberals/immigrants/trans etc.

If enough Democrats would follow Bernie’s lead, they would win, handily.

[–] just_another_person@lemmy.world 16 points 4 hours ago (7 children)

The bigger problem is the latter of your comment. Republicans have no issues with lying about everything, and promising undeliverable things. It's unconscionable, but they know these people never leave their lesson and continue voting against their own interests as long as they can concoct this fascist "US v Them" narrative.

Democrats have been there out spouting the truth of the situation, but that's not enough. They need demonstrable proof to illustrate their points, and this is that. If there isn't a massive shift in voters because of this fucking mess, nothing is going to do it. Sanders and AOC are on the right track, and we need more of that. Go to where they are and talk to them. Illustrate the points and what is going to happen if they don't switch their votes.

[–] dan@lemmy.i.secretponi.es 4 points 3 hours ago* (last edited 3 hours ago) (1 children)

Exactly. In order to promise to "fix the government" you need to lie to them and claim the government is broken, first. That's where liars have a leg up.

A lot of people here are developers or tech adjacent so I'll offer this strained analogy: this "the government is broken" narrative is tantamount to an intern hot off their Learning NodeJS course coming in and telling everyone that their complex production systems are trash and need to be completely rebuilt. That intern doesn't have any of the context, experience, or knowledge to make that determination and often creates conflicts within the team instead of just looking forward to the next iteration for improvement. Meanwhile, the professionals have to keep cleaning up their mess.

Elon Musk is this intern. Boebert, MTG, Tuberville, etc, are this intern. The GOP has been promoting and encouraging these interns and has since Reagan.

Can the government be improved? Absolutely. Should the interns be doing it? No.

[–] spankmonkey@lemmy.world 3 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

Exactly. In order to promise to “fix the government” you need to lie to them and claim the government is broken, first. That’s where liars have a leg up.

Well, there are some broken parts of the government thst do need fixing. The courts don't have a way to enforce rulings. Laws that limit executive overreach don't have an enforcement mechanism. Too much power is concentrated in the oval office.

It is broken, but not because of spending or any of the stuff Republicans claim to be broken. It is broken because it allows for their shenanigans.

Dems could have run on fixing the actual flaws in the system that are allowing this coup, but they chose to appeal to moderates instead. In the future they could run on fixing the flaws, but would need to follow through when they have the ability.

[–] Nightwingdragon@lemmy.world 3 points 1 hour ago (1 children)

Dems could have run on fixing the actual flaws in the system that are allowing this coup

It would have accomplished exactly nothing if they did. Voters aren't interested in "fixing the system". It would have come off as Democrats caring about nothing but "making power grabs" while ignoring kitchen table concerns such as the price of groceries. It would have come off as Democrats being more disconnected from the needs of everyday voters than they already are.

Harris, or whoever the dem nominiee would have been, would have been focusing on "fixing the system" while Trump just made all the same empty promises about "bringing down the price of eggs on day one", and he would have won by an even wider margin. Your average voter gives exactly zero shits about how things work in DC and what does and doesn't need to be fixed.

[–] dan@lemmy.i.secretponi.es 2 points 35 minutes ago (1 children)

It would have come off as Democrats making nothing but "making power grabs"

Even if it didn't have that outward appearance, the liars would have lied to ensure that was the message.

Here's an example of this with Democrats trying to improve access to voting:

https://barr.house.gov/2021/3/rep-barr-denounces-house-democrats-h-r-1-the-election-power-grab-act

Rep. Barr Denounces House Democrats’ H.R. 1, “The Election Power Grab Act”

Here's Democrats trying to fix the courts:

https://www.courthousenews.com/republicans-wont-budge-as-biden-details-supreme-court-reform-plan/

“Liberals are furious that [the Supreme Court] is abiding by the Constitution,” said Oklahoma Senator Markwayne Mullin, branding court reform efforts as “a toxic power grab” chipping away at the constitutional separation of powers.

Here's the Democrats trying to give people in DC access to representation:

https://oversight.house.gov/release/hearing-wrap-up-republicans-warn-h-r-51-is-an-unconstitutional-unworkable-democrat-power-grab/

Republicans warned the Democrats’ bill is an unconstitutional power grab that will result in the District receiving greater benefits than citizens of any other state

This isn't hypothetical partisan complaining.. the past is littered with examples of Democrats attempting to do the very things that people complain they aren't doing -- with Republicans whipping up lies to feed the electorate undermining those efforts.

[–] Nightwingdragon@lemmy.world 1 points 25 minutes ago (1 children)

Right. But here's the thing.

Those issues you brought up probably don't even make the top 10 in terms of issues that are important to the average voter. Your average voter doesn't care about "fixing" a system that they believe has been long since broken anyway, regardless of who is offering to do the fixing. It's not even a matter of who's right or wrong. It's the fact that the entire issue is just not important to the average voter to begin with. To your average voter, it will just come off as Democrats being out of touch with kitchen table issues and just trying to implement "fixes" that will primarily cement their own power. Even if those fixes end up having benefits for the average voter, they'll be seen as largely irrelevant if it doesn't actually help them pay the bills.

Put that up against someone who's making promises (regardless of how empty) that he will do things that will actually impact everyday voters, and the ones making those promises are going to win every time. Kamala Harris promising to fix the government while Trump is promising to actually bring prices down (Yes, I know....) would have just led to her losing by an even bigger margin.

[–] dan@lemmy.i.secretponi.es 1 points 20 minutes ago

That's the rub. The issues that the average voter thinks they're concerned about were spoon-fed to them by the liars. Which means we can either have Democrats also lie, or they can tell the truth and fix the actual problems.

load more comments (5 replies)
load more comments (9 replies)
load more comments (18 replies)