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I'm not sure what you are saying. Straws, like plastic carriers were a well-established product that could be beneficially regulated tp reduce plastic waste. Single-use vapes were a new product category that pretty much came out of nowhere and are now likely to be regulated. Do you want a general purpose ban on every single-use item containing plastic? Not a bad idea, but it would be a big, quite radical change to the way people lived their lives - no biros etc.
Straws a literal drop on the ocean compared to what corporations are doing to the oceans.
I am happy to have paper straws if it helps the planet, but they chose the smallest thing they could do and as always put the onus on the consumers and not the producers.
They initially chose a thing that would have marginal impact on consumers' behaviour, yes. Starting in October 2023, people will no longer be able to buy plastic cutlery, plates, bowls, trays, balloon sticks, and other items.
Which items would you nominate for an immediate ban in addition?
Regarding consumers v producers - they literally just stopped producers selling this stuff. What do you mean?
I would shift the onus on the people buying the shit (consumers) to the people making it (producers).
Maybe we could look at fishing nets, plastic bottles etc.
To be clear I am all for doing more for the planet but I take issue with the blame being misplaced on consumers when the producers are polluting orders of magnitude more than we are.
How much less talking about the consumers responsible is appropriate? Or do you think people shouldn't talk about it at all?
Stopping a producer selling it in a country is putting the onus on the producer.
I don't think the narrative of producer v consumer is particularly helpful. Any regulation that hits the producer will also hit the consumer.
I'd be all for a ban on plastic bottles, but you need proper glass bottle deposit schemes in place first
I think it is helpful.
Consumers can only buy what’s on the shelves. If we limit production then the former isn’t an issue.
Whether a producer is prohibited from producing or selling has zero affect on the UK consumer. I agree that a ban on production would be good, but in the vast majority of cases these are overseas producers, so that can't be legislated for.
Then wouldn’t we regulate the imports.
No Asda you can’t import from X because they do Y?
Not trying to argue here, just want to be more informed.
I very much doubt that there are any products being imported - because they can’t be sold - so no need to regulate that.
The only thing I can see where a ban on production would help with is if the UK was home to a big manufacturer-exporter of straws etc. But that doesn’t seem very likely.
Appreciate thr discussion and happy to have my position changed if I’m on the wrong track
why do you think the producers are producing these things? Because consumer demand. If we stopped purchasing these things, they wouldn't produce them. They only produce them because that's where the money is.
Which is more likely.
The majority of consumers giving a shit about anything that doesn’t affect them.
Stopping the production of things we actually don’t want people to buy anymore.
It’s much easier to regulate a handful of companies than it is to educate several billion people and try and get them to change buying habits.
That’s like excusing a serial killer because victims are plentiful. You wouldn’t blame the victims and tell them to stay away from serial killers. You would punish the serial killer no?
Most of the world didn't use single use plastics until the last fifty years, we could get rid of it all easily, we simply choose not to.
Sure, we coudl go back to washing powder in boxes, using fountain pens, go back buying fruit loose from greengrocers, make our own yogurt, visit a creamery with a glass jar to buy cream, and get rid of most ready meals. I think "easily" is rather under-estimating the level of disruption it would cause the average person
Tbh I think you are overestimating the disruption, lots people do already buy washing powder in cardboard boxes(it's also a better product BC you buy it in bigger volumes and you can measure out the exact right amount for your machine and water hardness), picking your fruit from a loose box in the supermarket and putting into your shopping cart in a paper bag or a bag you bring yourself is also super normal, why would you have to make your own yougert? Why would you need to go to a creamry for cream rather than use the supermarket glass bottle return scheme used for milk? I feel like I should note that there a lot of food-safe resins and waxes that can liquid-proof containers that aren't actualy prohibitively expensive but a bit more expensive and currently less widely produced than plastics. But considering what we're doing to the planet that sacrifice is negligable
Yeah the pre-portioned and plated ready meals you buy from the fridge section would probably stop being thing, but there also food-bar things that serve a very similar product
Obviously life would change a bit and it wouldn't be painless but I really think people overestimate it and something absolutely has to change
Thank you for this optimistic take. Appreciated and thought provoking
Have you never seen a cardboard carton of juice or milk?
Yes. And for the most part, those are lined with a very thin plastic skin - which is what makes recycling difficult. I didn't mention milk or juice because glass bottles would be the obvious answer.
You know, people have bought milk from farmers long before they invented plastic packaging....
Yeh. Now scale that to New York or London. I think you are stuck with glass bottles in a refrigerator