"Save lives" are you dense? Russia is kidnapping, torturing, killing and deporting Ukrainians in the occupied regions on an industrial scale. Every time Russia retreated, mass graves and torture cbambers were found.

Ukraine is conscripting Ukrainians like any other country that has been attacked before it has done. The west could have equipped those poeple. The west could have trained those people. In fact, most Ukrainians that are currently dodging the draft are saying that they would let themselves get drafted, if they were properly equipped and trained. It's in the west's power to do that. They just don't want to. Also, you just conveniently ignore the absolutely horrific losses the Russians are having with theirmeat wave assaults. But I guess in your world view, Zelensky is responsible for that too.

[–] OurToothbrush@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 week ago (7 children)

“Save lives” are you dense? Russia is kidnapping, torturing, killing and deporting Ukrainians in the occupied regions on an industrial scale.

Serious citations needed. Please do not spread atrocity propaganda in this comm.

[–] Quacksalber@sh.itjust.works -4 points 1 week ago (6 children)

How about UN reports? You can find them by simply googling.

[–] OurToothbrush@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I've found no UN reports detailing activities such as those on an industrial scale. Please cite the UN reports.

[–] Quacksalber@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 week ago (1 children)

https://www.ohchr.org/sites/default/files/documents/hrbodies/hrcouncil/coiukraine/a-hrc-55-66-aev.pdf

2.58.

The Commission previously found that Russian authorities had committed torture in seven provinces of Ukraine and in the Russian Federation. 32 It has continued to gather evidence of widespread and systematic use of torture by Russian authorities, in both Ukraine and the Russian Federation.

Literally the first report I opened.

[–] OurToothbrush@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

Continue, you only have several more claims that aren't cited. For example, the use of language "industrial scale" for torture.

Also please keep in mind that this isn't a high standard of evidence, as UN reports often are influenced- such as the significant citations of the German fascist Adrien Zenz in some of their reporting on China.

[–] Quacksalber@sh.itjust.works 1 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (1 children)

Please enlighten me what the substantive difference between 'industrial scale' and 'systematic and widespread' is. Not enough conveyor belts and smokestacks?

Similarly, please point out to me what your exact issue is with the report I linked.

Also, citation needed that Zenz is a fascist. I found much criticism of him, but no credible allegation that he is a fascist.

[–] OurToothbrush@lemmy.ml 4 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

Please enlighten me what the substantive difference between ‘industrial scale’ and ‘systematic and widespread’ is.

Literally the difference between the holocaust and a pogrom.

Similarly, please point out to me what your exact issue is with the report I linked.

A lack of institutional credibility and an unwillingness to read a 20 page report that references things that have already been debunked- for example, i took a vertical slice to dig into, looking in detail about their claims of abducted children that do not align with the reality of later western-biased reporting on the issue.

Also, citation needed that Zenz is a fascist. I found much criticism of him, but no credible allegation that he is a fascist.

He describes himself as a "Christian Nationalist" and "on a God given mission to destroy China" and his institute used to be a cia front (arguably still is, although it has now been obscured through another front organization) If he isn't a fascist, he is close enough to the picture that he still isn't credible.

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