this post was submitted on 27 Jul 2023
199 points (91.6% liked)

Technology

34832 readers
18 users here now

This is the official technology community of Lemmy.ml for all news related to creation and use of technology, and to facilitate civil, meaningful discussion around it.


Ask in DM before posting product reviews or ads. All such posts otherwise are subject to removal.


Rules:

1: All Lemmy rules apply

2: Do not post low effort posts

3: NEVER post naziped*gore stuff

4: Always post article URLs or their archived version URLs as sources, NOT screenshots. Help the blind users.

5: personal rants of Big Tech CEOs like Elon Musk are unwelcome (does not include posts about their companies affecting wide range of people)

6: no advertisement posts unless verified as legitimate and non-exploitative/non-consumerist

7: crypto related posts, unless essential, are disallowed

founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
 

From the article: "About a decade ago, Tesla rigged the dashboard readouts in its electric cars to provide “rosy” projections of how far owners can drive before needing to recharge, a source told Reuters. The automaker last year became so inundated with driving-range complaints that it created a special team to cancel owners’ service appointments."

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] ghariksforge@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Lithium mining is very bad for the planet. ICEs are bad, but battery EVs are also horrible.

[–] buckykat@lemmy.blahaj.zone 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] ghariksforge@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

For most people, including most city dwellers, trains are indeed the correct solution.

[–] maynarkh@feddit.nl 8 points 1 year ago (2 children)

US rural settlements were built on train lines before cars destroyed that.

For most long range travel, trains are the solution.

[–] buckykat@lemmy.blahaj.zone 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

And bikes or PEVs for short range travel.

[–] maynarkh@feddit.nl 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

PEVs are kind of a trap though.

ICE cars are not just problematic because of their emissions, they do much worse things with their infrastructure requirements. Roads and parking that can support everyone driving their car alone everywhere results in sprawl. That makes everyone not in a car have to get in a car as well, and also increases infrastructure costs for other services, since they have to service a much larger area.

Cars have their place, but in an ideal world, a regular family regardless of where they live shouldn't need one. It's not a personal mobility solution. Taxies and stuff make sense, everyone sitting in their own car doesn't.

And this is not even counting that car accidents are a leading cause of fatalities because we give a licence to everyone with a pulse.

[–] buckykat@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

PEVs (personal electric vehicles) aren't cars. They're ebikes and escooters and EUCs and things like that. Things you can carry up a flight of stairs or onto a train. They are most at home in bicycle infrastructure.

Exactly.

I have two sets of tracks in my city, one that's used as a commuter rail, and the other which is currently unused but connects to a light rail network (about 10 miles away). That unused rail connects about 500k people, and eventually connects to a commuter rail in two places (one about 15 miles south w/ a university, another about 20 miles north w/ a hospital), and goes through a blue collar job areas, residential areas, and white collar job areas, with downtown areas for shopping shopping along the way. The existing rail goes by a major league stadium, shopping district, and later a hospital, with connections to other lines.

The commuter rail takes ~2 hours to get to my office because of awkward transfers. If they moved a bus line to that station, my commute would drop to ~1hr. Or if they extended the light rail on existing tracks, my commute would be ~1hr and I would use it for shopping and recreation as well.

But because they don't do either, I drive ~30 min to get to work. I would take the train if it was only 1hr.

Instead of building out along this existing rail, they built a new light rail line that only connects one hipster community (maybe 100k people) that cost the same more or as extending the light rail to my area. I just don't understand the priorities I guess.

[–] krische@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

What happens to lithium after it's mined? What happens to oil after it's mined?

There's no comparing how much worse ICEs are compared to EVs.

[–] ghariksforge@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The problem is no what happens to lithium afterwards. The problem is what the environmental cost of getting the lithium out of the earth.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jun/14/electric-cost-lithium-mining-decarbonasation-salt-flats-chile

[–] krische@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

But once it's out, it's out. It can then be recycled and reused "forever".

You extract oil once and burn it once; then that carbon is stuck in the atmosphere "forever". Now you have to extract more oil and do it all over again.

That's the big difference, EVs don't consume lithium; they borrow it.

[–] ghariksforge@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

That's not how recycling works.

Most recycling today is PR anyway. Recycled stuff gets dumped into some poor third world country.

[–] markr@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

lithium and cobalt are highly recyclable. The problem is not recycling them the problem is getting all the recyclable batteries into the circular manufacturing process.

[–] krische@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago

There's at least one company recycling EV batteries already, and that's even with the small amount of end-of-life batteries out there (most are still on the road): https://arstechnica.com/cars/2023/03/heres-what-redwood-learned-in-its-first-year-of-ev-battery-recycling/

Recycled stuff gets dumped into some poor third world country.

That's definitely the case for low/zero value materials like plastics. But the materials in EV batteries are way too valuable to just throw away.