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Bernie Sanders to voters skipping presidential election over Israel: ‘Trump is even worse’
(www.nbcnews.com)
this post was submitted on 27 Oct 2024
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Yes, Trump is even worse. But killing innocent people is still so bad that I am harmed by it being politically acceptable.
If politics is killing innocent people more nicely ('yeah, that's bad, but it just happens') or more nastily ('haw haw stupid children'), I no longer care about politics.
Let's say Trump gets elected, and ten years from now, some kid asks you, "What did you do to prevent this?"
Are you going to tell them you just didn't care enough to bother?
I'm going to point at the Green Party, one of the 3 major parties in the current election, and at the 3 or 4 smaller parties that are gaining traction, then I am going to explain to them that 10 years ago, the country was deeply gripped by a plutocratic fascist duopoly and I did what was necessary to combat that fascism while others accepted it and pledged to it because it was in their best interest to just fall in line.
Then I will encourage them never to kiss the ring of fascism and genocide in order to preserve their own personal feelings of security.
Call it what you want, but the green party has no chance of making an impact on the outcome of this election except as a spoiler candidate.
And by that you mean voting for the only non-fascist candidate with a chance of winning the election, right?
These liberals voting for the green party think that letting a genocide happen now is an acceptable cost of doing business if it maybe leads to a Green presidency in 30 years. They're willing to be complicit in Trump's genocide.
The. Democrats. Are. The. Ones. Who. Started. The. Genocide.
This is Genocidal Joe's genocide. Trump will just inherit the framework Biden built.
No, Winston Churchill started it. He's not a Democrat. He's not even American. Also, it doesn't matter who started it. "He started it" is an appropriate argument to use on the playground when you get in trouble for fighting. This is a genocide. It's a little more serious, and drag would appreciate it if you took it seriously.
Liberals don't vote for the green party. Not genocidey enough.
Sure it is. The Green Party is doing more to make genocide happen than the Democrats are. The Greens are explicitly running as a spoiler candidate to make Harris lose swing states. This will cause Trump to win the presidency and bomb the West Bank.
Source: https://www.nj.com/politics/2024/10/harris-vs-trump-spoiler-says-the-quiet-part-out-loud.html
You seem to have liberals and leftists confused. Liberals support Democrats because they're happy that the party has come around to supporting the genocide they've always wanted. Some leftists don't want genocide and vote for someone you don't want them to (someone who, yes, is an intentional spoiler, which I've said before), so you have to pretend that your genocide support is the moral genocide support.
You're no different. I voted for Harris, by the way. Took a long shower afterwards. Didn't help. I will resent Democrats forever for manipulating me into voting for liberals' genocide.
Drag isn't supporting genocide. Drag is picking Harris and her plan to end the genocide over Trump's genocide, and over apathetic complicity. Drag is picking the option with the greatest chance of preventing the most genocide. On the other hand, liberals will pay taxes into the president's war chest and do nothing to prevent Trump from taking that war chest and using their money for genocide. That's complicity.
I voted for Harris. I harbor no illusions that she has any plan to end the genocide. Show me this plan if it isn't fiction.
https://fedia.io/m/politics@lemmy.world/t/1360068/-/comment/7923370
An investigation isn't a plan. It's a delaying tactic. We can't shovel weapons out the door fast enough for an obvious genocide, but if we want to condition sales, well, as in all things centrists don't want to do, wouldn't you know it? Our hands are conveniently tied and we have to go through this whole self-imposed process.
The genocide will be complete before any bogus "investigation" is over, and that's the idea.
According to this comment, the law requires an investigation, so yes, an investigation is a plan. If you want to say the law is delaying the ceasefire, sure. But Harris didn't write that law. Harris is following the laws she needs to follow in order to stop the genocide.
And since it says the genocide gets to continue, you uncritically accept the comment's interpretation of the law.
The Leahy law is a thing, but that's discretionary because it gets in the way of genocide.
If you'd like to present a critique of the interpretation, drag will listen. What drag will not do is be complicit in any way in genocide.
I already did, and you did not listen.
No, drag didn't understand. Your critique was one short sentence. The idea it's supposed to be refuting was several paragraphs. Drag doesn't know what point you were trying to make because you rushed it and used multiple ambiguous pronouns. Explain it properly.
The idea was one excuse buried in several paragraphs about multiple subjects. The Leahy law prohibits selling weapons to governments that we know are committing war crimes. Pretending that Netanyahu isn't committing war crimes and vaguely announcing that you support an investigation because that's the only way you can proceed is slow-walking compliance with a law that centrists don't want to follow and have no intention of ever following.
Frankly, I doubt you will accept any explanation that involves anything that might curtail weapons sales to Netanyahu before his genocide is complete and it's too little, too late.
Okay, the law says we need to know it's a genocide. That means Harris needs proof that it's a genocide. And the proof needs to be compelling enough to stop the MAGA SCOTUS from meddling. Therefore, investigation. Seems to drag like Harris is doing the right thing. You explained the law in a way that matches what drag heard.
The standard for the Leahy law is that the nation in question has to be credibly implicated in a serious abuse of human rights. The idea that any proof needs to be acceptable to genocide-happy MAGA is just an excuse to continue selling weapons. Any investigation would determine if we should resume arms sales, not a slow walk to delay ceasing arms sales.
Seems to me like anything that keeps the genocide going is considered by you to be the right thing.
You're making an ethical argument, and drag already 100% agrees with you ethically. If you want to disagree with drag, try making a legal argument.
I doubt that.
I did. You ignored it more than once. It's why I doubt your agreement with my ethical argument.
I was referencing the election cycle in 10 years.
And I don't vote like a 13 year old trying to get my buddy the little fake crown for homecoming. Green party hits 5%, they get federal election funding, we are no longer a 2 party nation.
All this time the shills have been saying "vote for the genocide today, and then start the work the day after election day to make the Green party viable" has been a shameless diversion tactic the entire time.
I can throw away my vote on a genocidal cop who is pro-border wall, pro-incarceration of refugees, pro-genocide, pro-cop city, pro-lethal response to protesters, etc, or I can vote for the Green party to get actual funding and actual participation in the election process in 4 years.
It would have been so much faster for the supposedly left leaning party to actually lean left and get my vote, but since they decided to disenfranchise me and do everything they can to silence me, my went Green.
We're a two-party nation as long as first past the post voting is the standard. If you want the green party to be taken seriously, that should me what you're campaigning for, not a third candidate in an inherently two-party system.
You can vote for a candidate who's got a chance of beating the authoritarian dictator wannabe, or you can throw away your vote on a spoiler candidate with no chance of winning the election on the hopes that other people don't do the same and let Trump win.
I do hope that if Trump wins, all of you people who're trying to take the moral high ground will reflect on the situation and realize that you not only didn't do the bare minimum you could have to stop it, your actions actually indirectly assisted him gaining power again. I don't have much hope that that will happen, but I hope it does.
It's really a shame, because normally, I'd be very in support of the green party. I like their platform. But they need to get political seats elsewhere before going for the fucking presidency. Even if, by some weird happenstance, they got elected, they would be completely blocked by the other branches of government at every turn. Get some seats in local government, get some seats in state governments, get some house and senate seats, then try to join the big leagues.
Exactly, Jill Stein is a stooge with no government experience whatsoever who thinks she can jump right in and be president of the most powerful country on earth. Not to mention taking money from republicans and accepting legal aid from Trump's personal attorneys. It's a joke.
If you want to be a real candidate, start with city council. Mayor. Governor. state senate. ANYTHING and work up from there. But she isn't interested in making any actual progress.
Look at AOC for example, a progressive politician who is starting where she can actually make a difference and learn how to be a legislator and leader. Who knows, maybe one day we can vote for her for president.
When you lose with your "fall in line with my fascist" bullshit, remember you are at fault for your own loss.
You could have stood up for what is right, you could have influenced the Democrats to return to their roots, but you didnt. You made excuses for them and championed their fascism.
You are the reason they lost.
I honestly hope you're getting paid by someone to be here. The Trump campaign, Musk, Putin, China, somebody, because at least then I could understand your stance from a purely self-serving standpoint. If this is your sincerely held belief, I don't know what happened to get you here, but you should probably review your sources and really think about what you're saying, because it's pure fiction.
Not a penny.
You are projecting how the DNC is paying TikTokkers to play their spin. (didnt TikTok get banned by purple fascist federal decree?)
I just voted with a clear conscience, and a plan that in 4 years, Green will be in the mix, and if it goes well, in 8 years America will have stopped being fascist.
Bullshit. They have been receiving public funds you numb nuts. You can verify that from the Federal Election Commission. Here is their spreadsheet they provide as summary.
Please go fuck off with this argument as it is 100% verifiably false. This is literally lies that the Green party has told you. They routinely squander the money they receive because they hire zero talent to actually use funds in a meaningful manner. They have zero ground game, they only focus on top ticket rarely if ever down ticket, and office and PR positions are absolute shit.
Holy fucking shit have you eaten their lies, whole cake worth of them. I am so sorry you think the current leadership of the Green party is actually honest. Maybe if we were talking the 1980s leadership, but holy fuck, the Green party today has been overtaken by folks who are in it for them and them alone. And they go out and play victim, "Oh this system is not fair!!!" When their own willful incompetence ruined any chance.
I won't have this bullshit of victim they play. The Green party can suck a dick, the people running it have successfully ran that fucking boat into the goddamn iceberg at full throttle. Anyone supporting Stein is so fucking clueless at this point, there's zero redemption. Jill ain't in this for any kind of morality, she's in it for money, lights, and attention. The number of people who haven't caught on to this is absolutely astounding.
But we are NOT going to pretend that the Green party hasn't been receiving federal election funds, when that is so effortlessly proven FALSE. If you've been giving her money, she using that money to eat well, cause she ain't spending it on getting elected. And I assure you, she'll be out and about playing victim when she loses this time too.
But BULLSHIT, BULL FUCKING SHIT. BULL ---- SHIT!! That bitch has had millions handed to her and we still a two party system. Do NOT be spouting this bullshit. Don't be a pawn in her little victim game. She's a bad person, you do NOT need to be played by her game. You want to fix the two party system? Go to your State assembly, because THAT IS WHERE IT IS FIXED.
This little path that you explained, you're being played by dumb motherfuckers who are halfwits at politics.
No what happened was you lost your backbone and in your moment of weakness you got played by dumber idiots than Trump. The fact you think this two party system is fixed by the President election proves you have zero fucking clues. You know what, you should likely throw your vote away. I don't think you have anything to contribute to the left or the right. If you just stay 3rd party for the rest of your life, both parties can just write you off. If you vote 3rd party the rest of your life and not fix this at the State level, then you're no different than a dead voter. That's what Republicans and Democrats know about third parties, that's why they don't sweat them.
Because this whole "if we only get 5%" argument is a lie they tell you to keep sending them checks. They've been getting money, they've been getting election dollars, they aren't hurting for cash. Jill just doesn't want the job, because if she did, she would be running the party a whole lot like the 1980s and not this current "let's waste money as fast as we possibly can" mentality she currently has.
It's right there in black and white. They're being handed the tools to succeed down ticket. They just don't want it and that's why they don't go down ballot, that's why they have zero ground game, that's why they disappear for four years right after the election. They don't want to win, they just want your fucking money.
They SHOULD HAVE been receiving donation matching, but the Democrat Party meticulously filed injunctions in every state to block those funds until the very end of the election cycle.
At 5%, they get a cut of the blanket federal election fund through a channel the Democrat Party cant throw frivolous lawsuits at to sabotage the campaigns.
Fuck off with your fascist misinformation, you filthy bootlicker.
You know I commented, but you aren't even worth that reply.
But here's that link just in case you missed it.
https://www.fec.gov/updates/fec-declares-stein-eligible-to-receive-2024-matching-funds/
Green or socialist party (better. not funded by GOP even if you don't buy into socialism generally) in California or other non-swing state. Awesome. In swing state, destructive.
That's a great joke... oh, you're serious.
Their membership is < 1/3 that of the libertarian party.
You heartless liberals think that sacrificing thousands of Palestinian lives in the here and now is worth it in order to have a chance at a Green Party presidency maybe in 30 years. No! Genocide is never an acceptable cost of doing business. Stop being complicit in genocide! Vote for Harris.
If Harris were pledging to reign in Israel from killing innocent people, I would wholeheartedly agree with this.
- Kamala Harris
- Kamala Harris
- Kamala Harris
- Kamala Harris
Thank you for agreeing.
I agree that you posted something that does not indicate that killing innocents will stop.
The one who is steadfast pro-genocide...?
Am I missing something here?
Harris cant answer a question to save her life, but an answer she has given over and over IM TALKING... is that she unconditionally condones and supports the genocide.