this post was submitted on 14 May 2024
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Do any of them know what the word "liberal" actually means?

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[–] Andrzej@lemmy.myserv.one 55 points 6 months ago (64 children)

Do you know what the word 'liberal' actually means

[–] Neato@ttrpg.network 11 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (6 children)

It has 2 common definitions:

  1. Neo-liberal: a political approach that favors free-market capitalism, deregulation, and reduction in government spending
  2. Leftism in general.

You're almost never going to hear the right-wing use #1. Authoritarian communists will use #1 as a catch-all for modern capitalism.

[–] lugal@sopuli.xyz 33 points 6 months ago (22 children)

The US is such a right wing country that liberals are the mainstream left. In Europe, liberals are centrists and they aren't further to the right than American libs.

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[–] archomrade@midwest.social 11 points 6 months ago (12 children)

It's extremely frustrating hearing this repeated so often here.

It's fine if this is the colloquial definition you're used to hearing and using, but this is certainly not the way it's used outside of American politics and pretending like it's the only use comes off as both ill-informed and condescending.

When used derisively from the left, rest assured it is not referring to either of your adopted generalizations but a very specific ideology.

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[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 11 points 6 months ago

Liberalism has never meant "leftism in general." It has always been an ideology supporting the individual via private property rights. Neoliberalism is the modern form of it.

Liberalism was considered left when feudalism was right, but liberalism has never meant leftism.

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[–] menemen@lemmy.world 11 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (10 children)

This discussion is funny from a German pov, as our main local liberal party (the FDP) is pretty right wing and has been so since the 1940s. "Liberalism" always had a quite neative connotation to me therefore. They are also the party most open to working together with the far right (the AFD).

Liberalism can be right wing or left wing. It makes more sense to structure the political specrum like this. But even that is far from prefect.

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[–] pjwestin@lemmy.world 51 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

I'm on the left, but I'm far from a communist, much less an authoritarian one, and I 100% use lib or liberal as an insult. I think to most people younger than 50, Liberal refers to a certain type of Democratic voter. They'll hang a BLM sign in their window but support NIMBY policies that keep people of color out of their neighborhoods. They'll talk a good game about labor rights and unions, but still go to Starbucks and throw a shit-fit if their order is wrong. They cared very deeply about Iraq and Guantanamo when Bush was President, but stopped bringing it up once Obama was in office.

The Third Way Democrats of the 90s basically turned American Liberals into Neo-Liberals. I will still support them when I have to, since they hold all the levers of power over the only ostensibly progressive party in America, and not siding with them at this point basically ensures the rise of fascism, but I have no love for Liberals.

[–] db2@lemmy.world 46 points 6 months ago (1 children)

don't usually agree on that much

Where have you been the last 8 years

[–] queue@lemmy.blahaj.zone 29 points 6 months ago (2 children)

Yeah Tankies/AuthComs are just such an odd mixture of accelerationists, "own the libs" and just general stupidity of "a strong man makes strong men" bullshit that they support any fascist if it means maybe someday they might not be on the chopping block.

If Tankies were an actual voting bloc they'd be somewhat impactful for the first time since maybe 1949. That would imply going outside however.

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[–] Woozythebear@lemmy.world 43 points 6 months ago (2 children)

You can tell this was made by a salty neo lib

[–] queue@lemmy.blahaj.zone 24 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

It's really funny how no one really likes liberals but liberals.

Conservatives: "They're too freedom loving for my tastes! Why can't they just stay and home and be good corporate stooges like us?"

Auth-Communists: "They claim to like freedom but still willingly use the capitalist forces to oppress who they like. Liberals are okay with personal freedom until it impacts the white moderates. ~~That's our job!~~"

Anarchists: "It's literally weird to call yourself a liberal when all they do is oppose any movement against the status quo. If they can't convert them to sell away their soul to the state or capitalism, they're terrorists. They're more like conservatives than any actual progressives, and even progressives admit 100% capitalism isn't great."

Libertarian capitalists: "They claim to be for freedom but constantly require the state to check in on if people are enjoying their freedom like that Nanny's they never had. I just wanna grill for god's sake!"

Like it's just funny to me no matter where you are on the political spectrum, you have a somewhat decent reason to hate liberals (except conservatives are too stupid to tell liberals apart from "commies").

[–] Melkath@kbin.social 12 points 6 months ago

"My party is committing genocide and lost all of its credibility and ethos. Boo hoo."

At least they aren't using the word "progressive" anymore.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 34 points 6 months ago

Yes, leftists absolutely know what the word "liberal" means. It refers to a pro-Capitalist ideology centered around the idea of individual freedoms via private property rights.

Leftists disagree that allowing private property creates a freer population, and understand that Liberalism is the dominant ideology in developed Capitalist nations.

[–] cley_faye@lemmy.world 32 points 6 months ago (4 children)

Software developers are staying silent on this one.

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[–] oatscoop@midwest.social 28 points 6 months ago (7 children)
[–] egonallanon@lemm.ee 17 points 6 months ago (19 children)

I am the only true leftist. The rest of you are posers and/or feds.

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[–] febra@lemmy.world 28 points 6 months ago (3 children)

Republicans are also liberals. At least in the true sense of the word. So it's low-key funny when they use the term liberal as an insult.

I myself am not a liberal. Fiscally at least. Socially I'm a progressive.

[–] mynameisigglepiggle@lemmy.world 11 points 6 months ago

I'm just excited to see what happens when they find out their PC has been invaded by libs.

And then proceeds to own them by deleting them all

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[–] rockSlayer@lemmy.world 24 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Lmao check out all the salty libs seeing themselves get called out in these comments.

  • sincerely, an anarcho-syndicalist
[–] Baahb@feddit.nl 18 points 6 months ago (14 children)

Pretty much. "Lol why don't you like libs?"

...cause we don't like things the way they are, and the only goal of the libs appears to be prevent any sort of progress. Maybe we are allowed relief from existing problems, but fuck you if you wanna fix em!

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[–] antifa@infosec.pub 22 points 6 months ago (1 children)

They agree on a lot more than you'd think, once you parse out each cult's different groupspeak

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[–] BarrelAgedBoredom@lemm.ee 21 points 6 months ago (1 children)

I will not stand for this anarchist erasure

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[–] MrJameGumb@lemmy.world 17 points 6 months ago (1 children)

I'd say they both agree on the main point of both philosophies "everyone has to follow every ridiculous rule I come up with except me"

[–] queue@lemmy.blahaj.zone 14 points 6 months ago (2 children)

Conservatives, fascists, and Auth-Communists just disagree on what color the flag should be, and the name of the party in charge handing out the police to dispatch onto the people.

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[–] fcSolar@lemmy.world 17 points 6 months ago

Almost like AuthComs are authoritarian before they are communist, and thus have more in common with the American Fascist Party than any actual leftists.

[–] ASeriesOfPoorChoices@lemmy.world 16 points 6 months ago

wait until you learn about fiscally liberal vs socially liberal.

[–] vinyl@lemmy.world 15 points 6 months ago

I use lib for shared objects.

[–] Kolanaki@yiffit.net 15 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (19 children)

I used to think it just was synonymous with the left, but I've recently been seeing a lot of comments on Lemmy saying liberals aren't leftist so now I am not sure if it means anything or if those Lemmings are just dumb.

I've grown up with the term "bleeding heart liberals" being applied to groups like Green Peace and hippies that promote love and unity by people who are just complete pieces of shit, and in that context I was always like "I guess I'm a liberal 🤷🏻‍♂️"

[–] bl_r@lemmy.dbzer0.com 11 points 6 months ago (2 children)

Liberals are somewhere between center left and center right. In the US, the alternative to republicanism is the “liberal party” and because they often encompass people further left than the party line, they are seen as left wing. Generally, I associate people who are always in favor of slow electoral measures, a strong state, strong individualistic rights that are positively defined (the right to do rather than not having the right to do) and the view that capitalism is the only method that had worked so far and is therefore best with liberalism. But thats far from an academic definition.

When you add in the fact that people usually end up seeing another person’s politics in relative to their own, things get unintelligible for someone trying to pinpoint an ideology.

An anarchist like myself will probably point towards someone like Biden or Obama and say they are a liberal or neoliberal, which is probably accurate enough (if I do say so myself), but I’ll also call conservatives like Romney, Bush, and Raegan, liberals or neoliberal even though those are people most self titled liberals would hate. A staunch authoritarian communist might call AOC or Sanders a liberal because they aren’t revolutionary communists, even though I’d personally consider them somewhat socialist progressives. Heck, I’ve ben called a liberal by hardcore communists even though my views are more similar to their definition of communism than theirs, and I’ve been called a liberal by some alt right people even though their views are closer to liberalism than mine.

Fox news, on the other hand, would call a pink haired person on a college campus a liberal for the pink hair alone. They might label a gay trump supporter who has a pride flag a liberal because of their homophobia combined with the association pride has with liberals to them. They might call someone who is genuinely far left a liberal because they either can’t comprehend their beliefs or because they don’t catch some of the indicators that they are looking at a communist, anarchist, etc.

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[–] vzq@lemmy.blahaj.zone 14 points 6 months ago (12 children)

Tell me you don’t hang out with anarchists without telling me…

[–] wildbus8979@sh.itjust.works 13 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

There's only one axis on the political spectrum, and everyone left of Biden (a rightwinger) is a tankie, isn't this obvious?

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[–] Hedlosa@lemmy.blahaj.zone 11 points 6 months ago

Or marxists even lol

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[–] mino@lemmy.ml 13 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (11 children)

I 'am' an anarcho-communist and I don't like libtards. Libtards to me are 'progressive capitalists' that have no systemic insight what so ever and think all it takes to bring upon heaven on earth is to try and be nice.

I mean, you should try and be nice obviously but you are not going to soy latte your way outta this my dudes.

[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 22 points 6 months ago (1 children)

I don’t like libtards.

You can just call them liberals. You don't need to meld the term to a slur.

I mean, you should try and be nice obviously

By shaving the first two letters off an r-bomb? Come on, guy. I get what you're saying, but this is an awful way to phrase it.

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[–] BlackRoseAmongThorns@slrpnk.net 21 points 6 months ago (5 children)

Friend I'm not a friend of liberals myself but can we please not use ableistic terms that end with "-tard"?

Reserve that shit for the right wing

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[–] PhlubbaDubba@lemm.ee 13 points 6 months ago

Lib bashing in left spaces is the mating cry of the tanky

It might be cathartic every so often, but too much makes the wrong people feel safe.

[–] PanArab@lemm.ee 11 points 6 months ago (2 children)

"Liberalism is the ideology of capitalism, free markets, representative democracy, legal rights and state monopoly on violence. It includes a large portion of the present day political spectrum, from the centre-left social democrats to the far-right conservatives and American libertarians."

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[–] LoveSausage@lemmy.ml 11 points 6 months ago (23 children)

Scratch a liberal and a fascist bleed...

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