this post was submitted on 20 Apr 2024
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490
Trump was forced to listen silently as potential jurors offered their unvarnished assessments of him (apnews.com)
submitted 6 months ago by girlfreddy@lemmy.ca to c/news@lemmy.world
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New Yorkers who said they couldn’t approach the case fairly were excused during jury selection. But one of the women with the harshest assessments of him will be among those who will determine his fate on 34 counts of falsifying business records.

“I don’t like his persona, how he presents himself in public,” said the woman, who has lived in upper Manhattan for the last 15 years. The woman said she didn’t agree with some of Trump’s politics, which she called “outrageous.”

“He just seems very selfish and self-serving, so I don’t really appreciate that in any public servant,” she said, adding that while she doesn’t “know him as a person,” how he “portrays himself in public, it just seems to me it is not my cup of tea.”

Trump’s legal team took issue with her responses, but they were out of challenges by the time she was up for consideration.

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[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 182 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (2 children)

From another AP article on this-

One prospective juror, an older white woman, was struck from the jury pool by the judge after Trump’s legal team uncovered years-old social media posts that described Trump as a “racist, sexist” narcissist.

One of Trump’s attorneys called the posts “vitriolic.”

“She harbors a deep hatred for him,” said the lawyer, Susan Necheles. “She said that ’I wouldn’t believe Donald Trump if his tongue were notarized’” and that he was “anathema” to everything she was taught about love.

https://apnews.com/article/trump-trial-jurors-hush-money-criticism-b4fe05a61ed566a587523d1120b46a76

I have no idea who this woman is, but please someone give her a job on The Daily Show.

[–] tsonfeir@lemm.ee 58 points 6 months ago (1 children)

I wouldn’t believe him if his tongue were notarized.

That’s going in my insult bank.

[–] Gradually_Adjusting@lemmy.world 18 points 6 months ago

This woman needs to be protected at all costs

[–] jkrtn@lemmy.ml 5 points 6 months ago

She is objectively correct. Hopefully they weren't able to use a for cause strike on that one. She is evidence-based and accurate.

[–] WraithGear@lemmy.world 84 points 6 months ago

Whomp whomp. Just soft enough that the defense can’t convince the judge for a freebie

[–] credo@lemmy.world 76 points 6 months ago (2 children)

I wonder what percentage of jurors were dismissed by the defense. Seems like a better indicator of Trump’s popularity than voting records. This process is much closer to a “random selection” than voluntary respondents at the polls.

[–] ArbitraryValue@sh.itjust.works 84 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Keep in mind that these jurors are from NYC. In 2020, Manhattan voted for Biden 86.7% and Trump 12.3% and that's certainly not representative of nationwide popularity.

[–] credo@lemmy.world 7 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Yes, understood. Any analysis would need to referenced against the same population as the jury selection pool to be relevant. Though the pool itself may not be cleanly from within the NYC limits, depending on the court jurisdiction. Given the population density of NYC though, it probably biases source of jurors no matter what.

Any decent statistician would account for these variables.

[–] KevonLooney@lemm.ee 23 points 6 months ago (2 children)

The jury pool is 100% from NYC, Manhattan even. Notice how these people have detailed opinions on Trump from before 2015.

These are his neighbors on the island who know him best. And it's fitting that they get to judge him in this case. They are going to lock him up and throw away the key as hard as is possible with this case.

[–] Corkyskog@sh.itjust.works 4 points 6 months ago

Juror of peers and all.

[–] Pretzilla@lemmy.world 1 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

Not only Sith, juries work in absolutes.

It only takes one holdout to scuttle the whole thing.

[–] Tja@programming.dev 2 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Postpone*

[–] WraithGear@lemmy.world 1 points 6 months ago

Yea but functionally, each attempt at the trial will be weaker and push the prosecutors to lessen the sentence to get the conviction. I don’t know any cases that survived 2

[–] homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world 27 points 6 months ago

Well all of them that they could, they ran out of strikes. Because he’s a demented rapist fraud who tried to carry out a coup just three years ago. Many people hate his fucking guts, more and more.

[–] ElmerFudd@lemmy.world 62 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (2 children)

“Sometimes the way he may carry himself in public leaves something to be desired. At the same time, I can relate to sometimes being a bit unfiltered,” she said. “I see him speak to a lot of people in America. I think there is something to be said about that."

Seems like even the ones who don't like him, still get the appeal. I can't see it personally, call me crazy.

[–] meco03211@lemmy.world 63 points 6 months ago (16 children)

Or they knew to temper their words lest they be dismissed. I imagine some want to be on the jury.

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[–] ArbitraryValue@sh.itjust.works 21 points 6 months ago (1 children)

He's shameless, and a part of me envies him for that. I have been held back by shame and self-doubt - what if I hadn't been?

[–] WiseThat@lemmy.ca 32 points 6 months ago (1 children)

You, an average person? Probably homeless after you offended the wrong rich person.

If you're rich though, you are immune to consequences.

[–] ArbitraryValue@sh.itjust.works 17 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

Shameless doesn't mean stupid - a smart, shameless person wouldn't feel guilt or embarrassment if he offended people, but he would still avoid offending the wrong people if it would have negative consequences for him.

[–] AnarchistArtificer@slrpnk.net 54 points 6 months ago (2 children)

“He’s the object of derision. It’s his nightmare. He can’t control the script. He can’t control the cinematography. He can’t control what’s being said about him. And the outcome could go in a direction he really doesn’t want,” said Tim O’Brien, a Trump biographer and critic.

I felt a weird sense of almost pity reading this. On the surface, when I think about how deeply uncomfortable this scenario was for Trump, I'm glad, because he's laughable and this is nothing compared to the harms he has wrought on the world. But at a level deeper than that, when I think about how, for a narcissist like Trump, this is probably the greatest torture one could devise, and that's so pathetic that it's just sad.

To people like Trump, everything is about power. Everything is adversarial. The system that Trump exists within, that he's a part of perpetuating, teaches that power is everything and you either oppress others or be one of the subjugated.

When I was a kid, I ended up teaching myself to ignore hunger due to a bundle of things including poverty and eating disorders, so nowadays, I literally don't notice my hunger. I have to set alarms to remember to eat and in the rare instances where I do feel the physical hunger, I rarely notice it as that. I wonder whether people like Trump do the same with their capacity to feel for Human goodness. Forgive the overly poetic phrasing, but it feels like they've sold their soul for the ability to feel safe in the world, because they have opted into the adversarial worldview I described above.

[–] treefrog@lemm.ee 18 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

Opted implies choice. Trump is a product of this system that teaches power in all of the ways that you beautifully illustrated, as well as his father. He's a raging narcissist precisely because he has the emotional maturity of a 5-year-old. If he had mature loving parents that 5-year-old could have grown up into somebody that would have preferred a different worldview.

Just reminding you I guess he is a pitiable figure. And he has hurt people, so I do also relish watching him suffer the consequences of his actions for once in his fucking life. If he was my spoiled stepson who had just shoved a fork into a socket after I told him not to for the 20th time, I probably would relish that a bit too if I'm being honest.

[–] AnarchistArtificer@slrpnk.net 9 points 6 months ago (1 children)

I agree, and that context is a part of what I feel towards him, and others like him. I think of myself a lot, because I had a fucked up family and was bullied throughout school such that my head was an awful place to exist, full of toxic sludge. I think outwardly, I was still a good person, but inside, I thought some truly dreadful things and they definitely shaped how I behaved. It wasn't until I got out of my family home that I was able to build a better way of living. I know what it feels like to be the product of my circumstances, especially because I feel immensely lucky that I met the people who I did who helped me get out of that.

Alongside that though, I do feel like choice plays a large role. Opting into a toxic system isn't one big choice, but the culmination of many. Untangling a messed up worldview means condemning not just your environment, but also parts of yourself and it usually is easier to continue opting in. Similarly, extricating oneself from an environment like that isn't one big choice. I'm still shaped by my background because sometimes I get little bad thoughts that I recognise as coming from my mum and other similar figures, and casting them out is more effort than just ignoring them and letting them fester and grow. It isn't easy, but many people do find the courage and community to get out of that mode of existence.

It's sad, because I can't imagine a world like that for Trump. He's got so many sycophants around him reinforcing all this that I can't help but think he's probably too far gone on that front. That sucks, because it means he'll never fully understand the depth of harm he's done, and as a believer in restorative justice, I don't see how justice could be achieved in this scenario.

Two aspects are key to how I think about how our background affects our choices - compassion and accountability. As I've said, I had my own battle with toxicity, and I've also personally known people who used to be heavily hard right, who have used the phrase "indoctrinated" to describe their experiences. No-one exists outside of a wider context and we need to keep that in mind before judging. However also, the people who get themselves out do so by making good choices and having the strength to keep following through and keep building networks of support.

I suppose that's another reason why I'm sad - Trump has a huge network, but it's all just people like him, ready to jump in and capitalise on whatever happens with him. You could lock him up and throw away the key, but justice would still be far out of our reach. It's easy to see why so many are bitter about this trial — it's better than nothing, but that's not glowing praise.

[–] treefrog@lemm.ee 2 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

Again I really enjoyed reading your post. The first one I replied to was beautiful and so was this one.

I don't really subscribe to choice theory which is what I'm just going to call it. I guess if I was religious I would think of it as free will.

People need incentives to change. And they also need incentive to keep doing what they're doing. But it takes less incentive because it takes less energy for the mind to continue in its habitual patterns.

Trump had a very strong incentive to be who he is. Those incentives were given by society. And those incentives were given by his father.

He has had very little incentive to do anything different until very recently. And as you pointed out, his tribe of sycophents and lack of real human connection, doesn't create much of an environment where there's incentive to change.

In other words, the pain of being him has never gotten to be big enough where there's been reason to change. And his connection with other people and upbringing isn't such that he experiences remorse to make him want to change.

So, I agree that compassion is important. I also think of accountability as important to society. But I don't view accountability as something that the individual holds. Accountability is happening for Trump now. And he should be held accountable. Because without him being held accountable there is no incentive for him to change. Or for people who look up to him to change.

[–] Wiz@midwest.social 5 points 6 months ago

Very insightful. I wish I could updoot this a hundred times. Thanks for sharing your story.

[–] masquenox@lemmy.world 50 points 6 months ago (2 children)

“I don’t like his persona, how he presents himself in public,”

Uhm... really? Is this supposed to be "unvarnished"? For this cheeto-colored parasitic colostomy bag masquerading as a human being?

Trump could get harsher criticisms than that in fucking art school.

[–] SeabassDan@lemmy.world 27 points 6 months ago (1 children)

We don't want him out of art school, though, you saw what happened last time.

[–] ThrowawayPermanente@sh.itjust.works 4 points 6 months ago

I thought Mr Trump's painting was powerful, evocative, and brave. I recommend we make up a special award just for him.

[–] RandysGut@lemmy.world 7 points 6 months ago

We probably would have seen more delays from Trump's team if jurors responded like that. ("Too biased" or some shit.) Otherwise, a statement like yours would land you in the MAGA hit list, which isn't something your average joe juror wants to deal with.

[–] WashedOver@lemmy.ca 27 points 6 months ago (1 children)

I wonder how many just want out as they fear for their lives from the Maga crowd if their identity was to be revealed?

[–] jeena@jemmy.jeena.net 20 points 6 months ago (2 children)

And even if the crowd doesn't get them, if Trump gets free and becomes the president he'll have immunity as the most powerful man in the world and he will get his revenge.

[–] girlfreddy@lemmy.ca 5 points 6 months ago

Jayzuz. That's a terrifying thought. :/

[–] jkrtn@lemmy.ml 1 points 6 months ago

First they came for the jurors... :(

[–] A_Random_Idiot@lemmy.world 20 points 6 months ago

Trump has spent his entire life in an insulated bubble of yesmen who take his literal shit and praise it as the greatest of perfume, because they wanted his money.

Since his election, He has been exposed, perhaps for the first time in his history, to the unfiltered view that most of the world has for him.. Especially after his response to covid, his insurrection, and his post-presidency constant temper-tantruming.. and I'm convinced he does not know how to handle it, that its probably causing him severe mental decline due to his extreme obsessiveness over what people think him now that his insulating bubble has long since popped.

Hes basically the child in all those entitled parent stories you hear where the parents let their kid do whatever they want and never tell them no.

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