Is there liberal Islam?
this post was submitted on 25 Aug 2023
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Yes, the same as there is with any religion.
? Enlighten me.
There are conservative and liberal versions of any religion. Christianity has evangelicals but also Quakers. Judaism has Reform and ultraorthodox. But we only hear about the extreme radicals and conservatives in Islam.
Christianity has evangelicals but also Quakers
Which one is supposed to be liberal?
I supposed “unitarians” would have been a better choice. There are also nondenominational branches that believe in actually helping the poor and opening their doors to all.
And for the record, I’m not Christian, so I don’t have a dog in this race.
I think "liberal" here is just in comparison to the extreme conservative side of the religion
Liberalism as an ideology is typically secular, so no, there isn't "liberal Islam" anymore than there is "liberal Christianity."
There are, however, plenty of Muslim people that believe the role of government is protecting human rights, believe one of those rights is property, and think the best way of achieving this goal is a secular democracy.
Turkey under the Kemalists is an example of a primarily Muslim nation at least attempting to build a liberal democracy.
You might say it goes against fundamentalist Islam, but guess what also goes against fundamentalist Christianity and Judaism?
Gay imams are an example.
Turkey under the Kemalists is an example of a primarily Muslim nation at least attempting to build a liberal democracy.
Yes, building a liberal democracy by using military dictatorships. When you are trying to force something on people that dont want it(at least the majority), thats when you get Erdogan. It might suck for turks living in Western Turkey and in cities like Istanbul, Izmir and Ankara but the other half of turks have a majority.
And one of the fundamental principles of a democracy is that majority rules. You cant use the military to overthrow democratically elected governments just because you dont like their policy.
However, i agree with your point, there are plenty of turks who selfidentity as muslim and are ok with lgbtq, etc, just like there are christians. Though i never understood how that works. Like how can the Church of Sweden participate in Pride parades. At what point something stops being christianity and becomes a social club? In the Bible is clearly says that homosexuality is bad.
The Bible, at least the NT, also clearly says love all humanity including, no, especially the sinner. Hell the Bible says just about everything if you read the whole thing.
I mean this is what homophobes use when they say "hate the sin, love the sinner". You are still a sinner. And this isnt just some interpretation or parable, it clearly says it is an abomination. It's just silly.
Those people conveniently ignore the fact the Bible says all are sinners. It's always easier to judge others.
The New Testament says that homosexuality is a “shameful lust” (Romans 1:26), a “shameful act,” an abandonment of “natural relations” (Romans 1:27), a “wrongdoing” (1 Corinthians 6:9), and “sexual immorality and perversion” (Jude 1:7). Homosexuality carries a “due penalty” (Romans 1:27), “is contrary to the sound doctrine” (1 Timothy 1:10), and is listed among the sins that bar people from the kingdom of God (1 Corinthians 6:9). Despite the attempts of some to downplay these verses, the Bible could not be clearer that homosexuality is a sin against God.
I didn't say it's not but...
Romans 5:8
But God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
Romans 3:23 For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.
And most importantly: Matthew 7:1-3
1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
By rejecting the sinner and allowing yourself to feel hatred, judging them, you are committing the gravest sin. You imagine yourself to speak for God. To judge in His stead.
So you're saying it's contradicting itself?
No, I'm saying Jesus' teachings are intended as a guide for your own life, but He is very explicitly telling you not to use them to judge and condemn others.
These are both (the quotes I provided, Jesus's teachings) parts of the bible. They contradict each other. Ergo, as I said, the bible is contradicting itself.
If you want to filter the bible to be "just the teachings of Jesus" that's your prerogative, but the vast majority of Christians are not doing that, and the bible is provided and preached in it's full, unabridged format at churches across the world.
Fine if you want to be pedantic about it. It's a 2000 year old text, transcribed countless times. My point was never that the Bible is perfect but that if you want to follow it, it explicitly prohibits peolle using it to condemn others.
I really don't know what point you're trying to make here.
I made the point several comments ago, it hasn't changed. The point I made was that there are a ton of explicit homophobic teachings in the bible.
if you want to follow it, it explicitly prohibits peolle using it to condemn others.
As I said, this is not broadly agreed upon by a majority of Christians, yet you keep stating it like it is. I leave it to Christians to pick and choose the word of God much as they ever have but no one of them gets to call the shots on bible interpretation any more than another.
It's clear many Christians don't agree. They tend to cherry pick those parts of the Bible that appeal to them. If that's also the point you're trying to make then we're in agreement.
Kosovo was never a secular state in anything but paper.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
The message on the screens is accompanied by images of Vullnet Krasniqi, a well-known journalist at Nacionale, and the words "Press freedom ends with offense."
The call to join the protest said that the singer's performance had been incompatible with tradition and culture, was a threat to children and would lead to "degeneration."
When he asked some of the protesters what aspect of Peaches' performance posed a threat to children and what they meant by "degeneration," things turned ugly.
On another occasion, a journalist was brutally beaten for using a sarcastic tone in a Facebook post about an ultraconservative imam from Prizren who had been given a Mercedes as a retirement present by the members of his community.
Although radical Islam is not an immediate political threat in Kosovo, Xharra sees a dangerous phenomenon behind the campaign against Krasniqi.
By the time of publication, DW had received no answer to a request for a comment from a government spokesperson on the campaign against the journalist and Nacionale.
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