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I have been using Windows my entire life, but since I got my Steam Deck I’ve been considering trying to get into Linux.

I obviously don’t have much of an idea where to begin, other than that I’m currently also trying to learn Javascript. I'd like a basic workstation I can code on and mess with, that doesn't run more than a couple hundred. Could use some recommendations for hardware plus where to begin.

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[–] Max_P@lemmy.max-p.me 63 points 9 months ago (2 children)

Worth noting that you don't necessarily need new hardware, you can install Linux on your currently Windows PC in either a dual boot configuration (both OS installed) or replace Windows. You can also run Linux in a virtual machine to test the waters.

For a decent, x86_64 PC for Linux, the Steam Deck is ironically a pretty good deal for what you get. The Deck will run VSCode just fine, maybe just add a monitor and keyboard/mouse.

Linux can be pretty lightweight, it runs beautifully on my cheapo netbook from a couple years ago: WinBook CW140. I've done a good chunk of professional web work on that thing. The Deck beats it in every way, but it does web dev perfectly fine.

[–] Diplomjodler@feddit.de 11 points 9 months ago

I second the VM approach. You can mess around, try different distros and generally just get a feel for the whole thing. If you want a dedicated machine, any old box will do. A cheap mini PC or whatever you have lying around. One of the great aspects of Linux is that a lot of old hardware that may look obsolete suddenly gets a new lease on life.

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[–] rImITywR@lemmy.world 30 points 9 months ago (1 children)

You don't even need any hardware to get started. Fire up a virtual machine in VirtualBox or VMWare or use WSL. Start playing around, find a distro/DE you like and start learning.

After some time, look into dual booting your existing machine. You can try this in a virtual machine first before making any changes to you hardware.

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[–] maquise@ttrpg.network 20 points 9 months ago (9 children)

I should add that I’ve been interested in getting a small, portable notebook for coding separate of this, and making it Linux seemed a good idea at the same time.

[–] IsoKiero@sopuli.xyz 18 points 9 months ago

Generic answer for this is to get a refurbished corporate laptop. At least in here we have several companies which buy previously leased computers and give them a refurb (new hard drive, good cleaning, things like that) and sell them for pretty good price.

W, T or X series Thinkpads are pretty safe options, my T495 was 300€(ish) on sale. L and carbon are something I'd avoid, L (at least few years back) weren't built as well as T-series and X1 carbon doesn't have options to expand/swap out ram.

[–] d3Xt3r@lemmy.nz 11 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

Contrary to what others here are saying, instead of trying to install Linux on something random, I would highly recommend getting a Linux-first / Linux-friendly hardware at first instance, if possible. If not, that's fine, you could just go for any random off-the-shelf PC, BUT you run the risk of certain things not working or perhaps not fully optimised. For instance, for laptops, one common issue is standby/sleep mode not working properly - either you may experience battery drain during sleep, or things like the graphics or audio might break after resume (or worse, might even crash). Or you may experience higher battery drain in general compared to Windows, or certain things like some Fn keys for brightness may not work etc. Certain sensors not working is another common issue, which may cause your fans to run at 100%. And if your system has an nVidia card, there's a good chance you may run into issues - if not during installation, perhaps after a system (kernel) upgrade. These are all just examples btw, just because you're buying something random doesn't mean you may face these issues, but it's something to keep in mind.

The general rule of thumb for buying Linux-friendly hw is: avoid nVidia. Both Intel and AMD onboard graphics are fine (for the most part - at least, they have a better track record than nVidia anyways).

There are some PC/laptops which come with Linux loaded out-of-the box, which would be the ideal Linux machine to buy. I call these Linux-first machines. Examples of such machines include System76, Star Labs, Slimbook Fedora, Tuxedo, Purism, Juno Computers and Entroware to name a few. There are also some laptops from mainstream OEMs which come with Linux, such as the HP Dev One and Dell XPS Developer Edition. You can't go wrong with any of these machines, as they're Linux-first machines and have been tested by the OEM.

Then there are Linux-friendly laptops - these are laptops which may not necessarily come with Linux, but have been either confirmed by the OEM in some capacity that they're Linux compatible, or they're widely supported by the community due to their Linux-friendlyness and popularity. Examples of these include the Framework laptops and Lenovo's ThinkPad series. You generally can't go wrong with these either.

For other machines, your compatibility can be a hit-or-a-miss. Some laptops may work fine, but might need some extra configuration steps to get it all working - eg Microsoft's Surface laptops need a special kernel to be installed (and some additional steps to be followed, depending on your distro), but otherwise work fine once you've installed all the extra bits. If Linux-first/friendly laptops aren't an option for you, you could go for something random, but you'll need to do your research (Google/reddit search etc) and see what their compatibility is like, whether everything works, if there's any issues etc. In fact, this would apply for most of your hardware purchases going forward. Eg, say you're buying a printer or some external webcam, you should check for it's Linux compatibility first before buying it.

Finally, if you want to run Linux on a device you already own - you can (generally) try it without any risk, using a Live USB (bootable). Just download the image, write it to your USB drive and boot from it - this will give you a good feel of things, and highlight any potential compatibility issues. Ventoy makes this a very easy process - just install Ventoy to your drive first, and one it's done, you can download multiple ISOs of various Linux distributions and just copy it to your drive (no need to install them). Then you can boot from the USB and select the distro you want to try and boot from it. This is extremely handy for trying out various distros, or just keeping some "rescue" ISOs handy. You can even boot a Windows ISO from Ventoy (and other OSes too, like the BSDs).

[–] maquise@ttrpg.network 5 points 9 months ago

This is probably the most helpful advice I think I’ve gotten so far. Thank you, I’ll look into these options.

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[–] Lettuceeatlettuce@lemmy.ml 18 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (3 children)

Ebay, T470, T480, T490. $200-300. Good laptops with great Linux compatibility. Cheap and reliable.

For your distro, Linux Mint. The stock, normal edition right on the website. Cinnamon desktop edition.

Simple and reliable, and very windows-like.

https://etcher.balena.io/ is good and simple software to create a bootable USB.

Use the Mint .iso as the file, burn to the USB stick of your choice.

Welcome to the club :)

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[–] cetvrti_magi@lemmy.world 16 points 9 months ago (1 children)

If you have PC that can run virtual machines I recommend starting there so you can see how Linux works. Use it for a longer period of time and try doing some stuff there that you would normally do on Windows.

[–] AVincentInSpace@pawb.social 4 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

Worth noting here that any even remotely modern computer supports hardware virtualization for natively running virtual machines, including laptop chips and even Apple silicon, although you usually have to enable it in the BIOS since few people need it and malware has been known to abuse it. The setting for that has various names depending on motherboard vendor but usually related to "Hardware Virtualization", "Intel VT-d" or "AMD-V". If for some reason your machine doesn't, some virtual machine software also supports software emulation although be prepared to take a massive performance hit.

Also worth noting that in my experience, even with hardware virtualization, in most cases, the performance of a virtual machine in a graphical environment borders on unusable no matter what operating system is running in it, and Linux is known for its ability to run smoothly on lower spec machines than Windows can when installed on physical hardware. Also also worth noting that every Linux distribution worth its salt lets you "try before you buy" (or to be more accurate, try before you install) and experience basically the whole operating system including installing programs from within the installation media, without touching your existing OS.

(Of course, you might have better luck than I did running a virtual machine, and in the early days of your Linux journey you will DEFINITELY want a working copy of Windows you can quickly fall back on when something breaks. If you install a VM and you're happy with how it performs, by all means, stick with that till you're good and ready to make the next step. See how you like it, get some practice using it etc. before you make extremely-difficult-to-undo changes to your boot disk. If you want to get a bit closer to how it performs for real, but don't trust yourself to install a new OS without accidentally erasing all your data, read on.)

You can write an ISO image to a flash drive, boot off that flash drive, close out of the installer window (it'll drop you to the desktop) and give Linux a test drive before you install it for real. If you decide you don't like it, unplug the flash drive and reboot your computer, and Linux will leave no trace it was ever there. (Depending on your setup (specifically laptops that use TPMs and full disk encryption) you might have to reenter your Bitlocker password (which is a ~40 character random alphanumeric string saved in your Microsoft account) to re-enable secure boot, but that's it.)

Not everything works in a live environment -- you'll have a hard time installing graphics drivers when you haven't installed the OS, for example, and all data/programs you create/download will be limited to the size of your RAM and wiped when you reboot -- but you can get a pretty good test drive. You can get a feel for how the GUI works, customize it to your tastes, and even download and run stuff like Discord and Steam all without touching your boot disk.

If you decide you like Linux, but not enough to completely leave Windows behind (no shame in that! It's where I started too!) you can install in a dual-boot configuration. Basically, you carve out a portion of your drive for permanent use by Linux (I recommend ~1/4 to 1/2 of the total drive space but it can be whatever you want), your Windows C: drive shrinks by that much, and you get asked which OS you want to boot into each time you restart your computer. Neither OS will be aware of the other's existence, and from the perspective of any programs you install they will be two different computers. Linux can read and write files saved on your Windows partition, but not vice versa, so if you want to copy files between them you'll need to boot into Linux.

Tutorials on how to set up a Linux dual boot abound online (in fact, many distros' installers have it as the default behavior), so I won't explain how to do it here. If you have any other Linux related questions, though, feel free to send them my way!

[–] Shdwdrgn@mander.xyz 13 points 9 months ago (3 children)

Something thing to keep in mind when getting started is to manage your expectations. You've spent all this time using Windows so you already know where everything is -- for Windows. In a lot of respects you are going to be starting over from scratch, learning new ways to install software, get around the desktop, and doing simple things like changing your settings. Don't get discouraged, you've done this before, you can do it again.

One way to cope with the initial frustration is to start out loading up something like VirtualBox on your Windows desktop, and installing a linux distribution there. Then you can play around, take your time to find a desktop that's right for you, and learn how to actually DO things in linux that you already do daily in Windows. That way you eliminate the pressure of trying to figure out how to do everything at once.

Another reason to start with a virtual machine is that there are a LOT of possible linux distributions to choose from. There are also quite a number of different desktop environments to choose from. It pays to take a bit of time and play around with different options to find out what you like. You also need to decide if you want something running the cutting-edge releases, or if you prefer stability with slightly older software. For example, Ubuntu is a good choice for the absolute latest releases but can introduce bugs that the devs refuse to fix. On the other hand, Debian (which is actually the base system that Ubuntu is built on) only releases slightly older software that has been tested over the past few months. However in all cases, you will always get immediate patches for security issues.

As already mentioned, any old computer laying around is a viable candidate for Linux. Until last year I was running internet-facing web servers on 1GB of memory and a single core. If you have something built in the last 20 years it will work for your purposes. Hell my desktop is someone else's throw-away because under Windows they considered it "too slow to get email or browse the internet". I use it for writing arduino code and building models for my 3D printer.

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[–] captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works 12 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

Recommendations for hardware: A relatively normal computer. I would avoid exotic hardware. If you've got an old computer kicking around, give it a try on that. Or, eBay is full of used corporate Dells that will do the job for pocket change.

I'm a fan of Linux Mint; I've been daily driving it for a decade now, but really don't worry that much about distro or DE, if you're really looking to get into programming and such you'll probably spend a lot of time in the terminal anyway.

Oh I almost forgot: Welcome to the Linux community!

[–] sunoc@sh.itjust.works 12 points 9 months ago (4 children)

Welcome to the community!

Seconding all the previous comments recommending Linux Mint: since you come from Windows, you'll probably feel most at home there. It is also possible to do all common tasks without ever opening the terminal.

Mint should run fine on any hardware, but to be most safe, try to use something that is at least 1-2 years old and stay clear from dedicated GPU as first (in particular Nvidia).

I'd also advise that the packaging situation for distributing software in Linux rn is somewhat messy. Thankfully, multiple format (apt, Flatpak) are directly available in the Linux Mint Software Center. In case you need to use some proprietary software (Chrome, Spotify, idk), you'd probably want to go with Flatpaks.

[–] st3ph3n@midwest.social 7 points 9 months ago

Another Mint + Thinkpad vote here. I'm a lifelong Windows user who has occasionally dabbled in Linux, and Mint is the first distro that I've stuck with enough to consider it my daily driver. I have it running on a used Thinkpad T14 Gen 2 with an AMD Ryzen 7 in it. I still have a separate Windows desktop for gaming and Adobe Lightroom, but the Thinkpad is my everyday couch PC now. Everything worked out of the box except for the infrared camera used for face unlock type stuff, and the fingerprint reader. I got the camera set up to use the Linux equivalent of Windows Hello, Howdy, and while it does work now it's not as fast and reliable as it was under Windows. I haven't even tried to set up the fingerprint reader yet. I'm very happy with how well everything works in general under Linux Mint.

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[–] pizzawithdirt@lemmy.world 11 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Probably Linux Mint (https://linuxmint.com) will be the best experience for you. If you have newer hardware or you're not sure scroll down to the bottom on the download page and download the "EDGE" iso since it has newer software than the default versions and more hardware support. If you have older hardware, you can probably install the Cinnamon iso too but if that doesn't work install the XFCE iso. Finally flash it onto a USB drive with https://etcher.io/ and boot into it, testing if some things work like audio and video. Software like VSCode etc. are already on the software manager so you won't have much trouble with writing JS.

[–] pizzawithdirt@lemmy.world 5 points 9 months ago (2 children)

Though if you have an Nvidia card you should install Pop! OS or Nobara Linux since they have an Nvidia ISO so you won't need to struggle with installing them later on.

[–] sekhat@lemmy.temporus.me 7 points 9 months ago (2 children)

Doesn't Mint make installing Nvidia drivers pretty simple?

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[–] Colour_me_triggered@lemm.ee 9 points 9 months ago (1 children)

You should be aware that fur suits are pretty expensive.

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[–] BaumGeist@lemmy.ml 8 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Debian + Gnome. The debian wiki is full of great documentation. If you prefer watching, there's so many great (and not-so-great) courses on YouTube. I personally found tutoriaLinux's series helpful. Please understand that is merelyy what helped me at that point in my journey not necessarily the best tutorial series for you or anyone else.

My biggest tip is, regardless of the teacher or the lesson: follow along. Learn by doing, not by watching someone else doing. If you find yourself thinking anything like "couldn't I have done this" or "but what would happen if I changed this parameter": Do It. Try it out. Seee what happens.

Coincidentally, my second biggest tip is: use a test environment to do anything that you don't fully understand. Even if it's only a new folder with a bunch of empty files to practice file manipulation commands, it's way better than losing your important files. Anything that affects software configuration should be backed up first, anything that affects the OS should be tested in a VM

[–] PipedLinkBot@feddit.rocks 3 points 9 months ago

Here is an alternative Piped link(s):

tutoriaLinux's series

Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.

I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.

[–] teawrecks@sopuli.xyz 8 points 9 months ago

Follow the first few steps of this guide to download Linux Mint, create a bootable USB, and live boot into it.

You can now play around with this like it's a real system. Nothing will be saved when you shut down.

When you are ready, you can continue with that installation guide to either dual boot, or completely wipe your disks to use linux. (To start, I recommend dual booting. You never really know when you'll need it as you're transitioning.)

Good luck!

[–] lemmyreader@lemmy.ml 8 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (2 children)

If you want to go low budget and play around there's lots of SBCs that can run Linux. Check here for example : https://www.armbian.com There's also ones that come as light weight keyboard, for example the pi400 Easy to carry around and put into a HDMI monitor. A drawback is that when using ARM there is sometimes software which only runs on amd64 family though that does not happen very often. Other option is to look at refurbished laptops. If you skip the chromebook ones (Which can be cumbersome to run plain Linux on unless you want to play with Linux and Android on top of ChromeOS) you can find them for 90 Euros or more.

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[–] gibzag@lemmy.world 7 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Linux Mint and any computer of your choice.

[–] 474D@lemmy.world 4 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

Second this. I only still have Windows on dual boot because of game pass and I need office for work. Mint just works.

[–] Nisaea@lemmy.sdf.org 7 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

I'll add: Back up your data and have fun! :3

Your new best friend: https://linuxjourney.com

There will be lots that will make you feel lost, because of the design language differences and the widely different philosophy, but you got this. Just take it at your own pace, one web search at a time and you'll be grand!

[–] troyunrau@lemmy.ca 6 points 9 months ago

In this thread: a bunch of people making it more complicated than it needs to be.

Grab an old laptop, grab a user oriented distro that has a live-USB boot option. Play and learn.

Live USB options that should be user friend enough. Choose at random -- because you like their logo or whatever.

https://pendrivelinux.com/put-mandriva-2010-on-a-usb-flash-drive-windows/

https://en.opensuse.org/SDB:Live_USB_stick

https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2230389

https://linuxmint-installation-guide.readthedocs.io/en/latest/burn.html

[–] BlanK0@lemmy.ml 6 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

Linux mint, if there is any problem try popOS.

Also would recommend trying out the distros before you install them in a virtual machine since it's easier to try multiple distros without the hassle of setting them up. Since you are in windows at the moment, you probably should try virtualbox

Edit: ventoy is a pretty cool project for when you want to setup a pen with the installation isos to the baremetal.

[–] itchick2014@midwest.social 5 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I recently bought a used LG Gram to install Arch on after a few years of not having Linux…so recently did similar research, albeit with more Linux knowledge. I do NOT recommend Arch as a first distro unless you are willing to put in time for troubleshooting. That said, looking up a model of laptop you are considering + Linux in a search engine can be valuable in determining how much ease you will have getting basic (trackpad, Bluetooth, webcam, WiFi) items working. I dabbled with a CD distro as a gateway to Linux and the “live disk” option is still the best way to experiment. Nowadays it is on a USB stick. This method allows you to play around without actually installing. Others here have already given good advice. If you go the USB stick route, do be careful with anything related to disk partitioning and formatting. I accidentally wiped my dad’s hard drive once when I was not being careful!

[–] possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip 9 points 9 months ago (2 children)

I hope that people aren't seriously recommending Arch. You should at least start with Linux mint and honestly you can just stick with it.

[–] itchick2014@midwest.social 3 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I haven’t seen Arch recommended to new folks outside of the Arch community circles and even most of them express caution. I always recommend Ubuntu or one of its variants for a person starting out, but it does help for the person to try a bunch of distros to see what they prefer. When I was starting out everyone was recommending Debian or Fedora. The more user-friendly distros didn’t come out until much later. Since then even the mainstream distros have improved a ton concerning usability, though I will say documentation always leans a bit too technical for my taste…for Arch especially. Too many holes for people that have no experience.

[–] squaresinger@feddit.de 4 points 9 months ago (2 children)

Tbh, I don't recommend beginners to try out multiple distros in the beginning. Realistically, if you don't have in depth Linux knowledge already, all you'll be able to differentiate is the look of the DE and the wallpaper.

I find, too much choice tends to confuse beginners more than it helps them.

So I'd rather recommend something simple like Ubuntu and let them try out the flavours with the different DEs.

Choice is better for later when people actually understand what they are looking for.

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[–] lemmyvore@feddit.nl 3 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Sometimes people unironically recommend Arch to newbs because "you'll learn so much about Linux while installing it".

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[–] port888@lemmy.world 5 points 9 months ago (3 children)

trying to learn JavaScript

Your first hurdle will be to figure out how to install VS Code. Double clicking the downloaded .deb file often doesn't work. You'll need to follow the instructions on the official page under "Debian and Ubuntu": https://code.visualstudio.com/docs/setup/linux

Specifically the part about 'sudo apt install {distro}.deb'. The other parts are not needed.

[–] toastal@lemmy.ml 4 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

VS Code

It’s the Church of Emacs or Cult of vi (or Neovim) in these parts! You don’t need a Microsoft text editor with proprietary plugins to write JavaScript. When your display manager inevitably breaks while you learn Linux or administer a remote system, having skills with an editor that works in the terminal will prove invaluable.

[–] Vincent@feddit.nl 3 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Can't you just install it via the Software Store?

[–] Cornelius@lemmy.ml 3 points 9 months ago

This, you should always default to your package manager for app installs. I believe it's available on their Ubuntu repos

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[–] accideath@lemmy.world 4 points 9 months ago

You can essentially use any hardware. If you already have an old pc or laptop, you can (probably) use that. If you get a new one, the only major recommendation for usage with linux is: don’t get something with a nvidia graphics card.

And where to begin: Probably some linux distro like Linux Mint or Pop_OS. They‘re reasonably beginner friendly. But, if you have some more specific questions (or need more help finding hardware or don‘t know what a distro is), feel free to ask.

[–] annoyed_onion@lemmy.world 4 points 9 months ago

I use the steam deck as my main computer running the stock steam os.

I'm currently using distro box to set up different programming environments. This is possible on steamos, which has the system directories as read only, by installing podman into the home directory. Distro box have a guide for steamos setup.

I run neovim but I would think you could run vs code if you use it. Haven't tried running a web server on it yet, but again, should be possible. Or, you can get yourself a cheap vps from digital ocean or linode if you really want to learn Linux the hard way!

[–] UmbraTemporis@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 9 months ago

The beauty of Linux is that it'll run on almost anything. I recommend second-hand office desktops for your use-case, you might find a good deal and get peripherals with it. If you somehow manage to come across GPUs at your price bracket, avoid Nvidia; poor drivers, support, corporate hostility etc.

My first distro recommendation is going to be a bit different from the usual, purely based on my experiences with other popular go-to distros. I'd recommend you try Fedora KDE, Fedora is a wonderful distro that always makes you feel welcome. KDE is a lot less resource demanding than Gnome, and is the desktop that ships with the steam deck. Personally I don't like Gnome since it's a bit Fischer-Price my first DE for me, but I encourage you to try everything.

I'm using the Budgie DE by the way, it's a good middleground between Gnome and KDE. Fedora provides "Spins" for all major desktops.

If you're feeling brave I'd like to quickly mention a version of Fedora called Fedora Kionite, it's whats poorly named an "immutable" distro (Atomic is a better name but don't worry over that right now). Very basically these distros restrict access to the core, or base, system files; which massively improves security and reliability. I use Fedora Onyx which is immutable with the Budgie DE, Kionite is KDE. Immutability is very new in the pseudo-mainstream and very much in it's infancy, so it will annoy you at times if you choose this path. But it has massive benefits and, I think, is the future of the Linux desktop.

I'm assuming this is your absolute first adventure into the FOSS world, which I know is probably wrong since you're on Lemmy, but I'm also still going to mention you should use the Firefox web browser as you said you were doing JavaScript. Firefox is the absolute most popular browser on Linux and has amazing developer features.

We're all eager to help budding penguins on their journey, so feel free to message me directly anytime for support or make posts right here.

[–] possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip 3 points 9 months ago (2 children)

Used dell workstation. If you need a GPU you can swap out the power supply with the help of an adapter.

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[–] Cornelius@lemmy.ml 3 points 9 months ago

Linux mint is a really easy and simple starting point. Fedora and openSUSE tumbleweed are a tad more advanced but allow more selection on your desktop environment (mint uses cinnamon, while Fedora and SUSE have both KDE and Gnome options) and thus can potentially support things like variable refresh rate and, when it gets support from KDE later this year, HDR.

For peripherals, if it's razor or Logitech, it'll just work and have community apps made to configure them. I personally like Keychron's stuff so that's what I use and that's fully Linux compatible, it does require some setup to work though. HDR is unsupported for the time being, but variable refresh (gsync/freesync) is in the KDE Plasma desktop environment under Wayland. On the topic of Wayland, if you want to make use of this new display protocol you'll need an AMD graphics card, as NVIDIA has been slacking with their Linux drivers. NVIDIA is getting better but it's not stable enough on Wayland for the laymen. In the case of only having an NVIDIA, X11 works fine, but it's just missing some features.

Also you won't need JavaScript, 90% of what you do will be through the GUI (depending on the distro), especially once you're set up. I know Fedora needs to enable rpmFusion, NVIDIA repos if on NVIDIA, and install codecs for hardware accelerated playback. Mint doesn't have these issues for the most part, though you'll want to enable flatpak's and consider disabling snaps. Mint already includes a graphical installer for NVIDIA and includes the codecs needed for hardware accelerated playback

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