this post was submitted on 23 Jul 2023
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Pentagon AI more ethical than adversaries’ because of ‘Judeo-Christian society,’ USAF general says::The path to ethical AI is a “very important discussion” being held at DOD’s “very highest levels,” says service’s programs chief.

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[–] finkrat@lemmy.world 28 points 2 years ago

"Judeo-Christian society" has been airstriking the Middle East for years and provoking wars for a lot longer than that which is a violation of Christian beliefs ("Do to others what you would have them do to you", among others) so they can kindly shove it up their warmongering ass

[–] obinice@lemmy.world 22 points 2 years ago

Kinda sounds like they mean it follows their personal ethics and religious rules more closely than others, not that it's actually more ethical.

Ethics are entirely subjective.

I would argue that any system that follows the rules of a religious society is deeply unethical.

[–] rm_dash_r_star@lemm.ee 20 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Yeah let's make sure AI is ethical by some religious standard before we put it in charge of the nuclear arsenal. What an ass.

[–] Weirdfish@lemmy.world 8 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Now this is a Terminator reboot I'd watch

[–] TwilightVulpine@lemmy.world 5 points 2 years ago

starring Kevin Sorbo

[–] LostMyRedditLogin@lemmy.world 14 points 2 years ago (7 children)

When an air force general uses a term like Judeo-Christian that is worrying. The brainwashing runs high. There's no such thing as Judeo-Christian. Judaism and Christianity are vastly different religions albeit related. It's a propaganda term to create an emotional tie with the US and Israel. No one says Judeo-Islam or Judeo-Mormon because it's idiotic.

[–] GFGJewbacca@ag.batlord.org 4 points 2 years ago (5 children)

I came in here to say just this. I'm a Jewish clergyman, so I deal with this kind of shit a lot. The term isn't just brainwashing; it's actively seeking to erase Judaism as part of Christianity. It's shit like this, combined with Christian Nationalism, which makes me jumpy at first when someone identifies as a Christian.

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[–] driving_crooner@lemmy.eco.br 3 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

You could talk about abrahamic religions, that encompasses Judaism, Christianism, and Islamism because in theory all three worship the same God, but of course they are never grouped like that because they don't want to be related with Muslims.

[–] postmateDumbass@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago

Also the Cristian and Jewish holy books both contain the Old Testament stories.

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[–] Lenins2ndCat@lemmy.world 13 points 2 years ago
[–] ZombieZookeeper@lemmy.world 9 points 2 years ago

Since most of the targets are Muslim, I guess it makes sense? /s

[–] livedeified@lemmy.world 9 points 2 years ago

if it's Christian ethics that guide us, we're all fucked

[–] madcaesar@lemmy.world 9 points 2 years ago (3 children)

Judeo-Christian is such a bullshit made-up term to rope in multiple gullible idiots into the fold.

[–] gmtom@lemmy.world 11 points 2 years ago

It's for people that want to go full "Christians = good, other religions = bad" but know that saying "Jews = bad" won't go down well.

[–] topinambour_rex@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Not to rope gullible people into the fold, but for attempt to fight anti-semitism, after WWII.

[–] baduhai@sopuli.xyz 3 points 2 years ago

Perhaps in the past that's how it was used. But not in this situation.

[–] postmateDumbass@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago (19 children)

They basically share the Old Testament as part of their holy book. So it is not total bullshit.

[–] TwilightVulpine@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago

As an ex-christian, let me tell you, christians cannot even agree or follow a consistent moral code among themselves, nevermind including whole other religions. Catholics vs evangelicals is a whole thing. This is total bulshit.

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[–] teamevil@lemmy.world 9 points 2 years ago

Welp time to strip him of his rank, he's an idiot.

[–] febra@lemmy.world 7 points 2 years ago

our society is a Judeo-Christian society and we have a moral compass.

And here I thought the US was a secular country. Very worrisome that some government employees are using these words.

[–] fubo@lemmy.world 6 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

tl;dr: The headline is false; the general did not actually say that. I thought it sounded wrong, so I watched the video that the article linked to, to check. Sure enough, it was wrong. However, the reality may not be any more reassuring.


Hypothesis: Like, no, that's obviously wrong; either the headline is trash or the general made a whole tossed salad with mango sauce out of whatever the people working on it said. (stated before further investigation; stay tuned)


Updating: https://youtu.be/wn1yEovtYRM?t=3459


Okay, wow.

So the speaker is saying this at the end of the panel, in response to a question asking about the use of autonomous weapons.

They want to talk about who's trusted to make the decision of whether to employ lethal force in a combat situation: a human American soldier, who might be exhausted and not thinking clearly, or an algorithm that doesn't get tired.

And one thing they mention is that an enemy might not have ethics that would lead them them even care about that distinction. And they express that as "Judeo-Christian morality".

That doesn't sit right with me. It sounds to me, in that moment, like they're implying that people from other cultures could be less moral, and that we should be willing to be more free with our weapons towards such people. That sounds to me like the sort of bullshit that came out of the Vietnam War.

But the rest of the answer sounds like they're trying to point at the problem of making command decisions in scenarios where the opponent might deploy autonomous weapons first. If the enemy has already handed decision-making over to an algorithm, how does that affect what we should do?

And they're maybe expressing that to their expected audience — mind you, the Air Force is heavily infiltrated by far-right Christian radicals — in a way that they hope makes sense.


Conclusion: The headline is incorrect; the general did not actually say that a Pentagon AI would be more ethical for any reason; he was talking about the human ethical decision of whether to trust AI to make decisions. But what he did say is complicated and scary for different reasons, including the internal culture of the US Air Force.

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[–] niktemadur@lemmy.world 4 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Yes, because the Old Testament is all peace and love and kumbaya.
Another dipshit military lifer inserting subjective religious arrogance - whatever religion it may be - into his spiel, details at eleven.

[–] rm_dash_r_star@lemm.ee 3 points 2 years ago

I think if you taught ethics to an AI based on the Bible and gave it the power it would quickly destroy the world. Oh that's right, they made a bunch of sci-fi movies about that starring an Austrian body builder.

[–] spicysoup@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago (1 children)

is there nottheonion on Lemmy yet? because this belongs on there. jfc what a time to be alive

[–] jmhdBV8l@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago (1 children)

As I understand it, of the branches, the Air Force is the worst for neocon evangelicals. What a quote! It gives me shivers.

[–] DigitalTraveler42@lemmy.world 4 points 2 years ago

Yeah the Air force academy in Colorado is in the same city as some very influential evangelical churches, Colorado Springs, and there's been a lot of scandal about it for a while.

Report from FFRF

NPR report from around the same time

A more recent scandal where a high ranking air force officer was pushing his ministry on his command

[–] uriel238@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 2 years ago (5 children)

Well I just lost some faith in the United States Air Force. Now I'm worried if we can trust them with General Electric 2.1 megaton hydrogen bombs. The USAF has more than a few.

[–] RobotToaster@infosec.pub 4 points 2 years ago (1 children)

You had faith in the USAF?

[–] uriel238@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 2 years ago

For approaching eighty years, they've been pretty good at not dropping any nuclear weapons, even those bombs had a very simple launch code to arm. The rise of Christian Nationalism in the US armed forces has been a concern since the new century and the 9/11 attacks (and subsequent PATRIOT act). I'm not sure Judeo-Christian values and Artificial Intelligence is a benign mix.

[–] raltoid@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

The US military has a wide range of generals, all the way from people who can barely stop themselves from dribbling while staring at a wall for hours as entertainment, to actual competent ones.

At least this guy is just a moron, some of them are very dangerous. For example US Army General Wesley Clark, who ordered someone to basically start WW3, which didn't go through because several officers refused to listen to him. Then he ran for president as a democrat, withdres. He later started a consulting firm and now runs a "boutique investment bank".

[–] drspod@lemmy.ml 1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

The British commander of the Kosovo Force, General Mike Jackson, however, refused to block the Russians through military action saying "I'm not going to start the Third World War for you."[80][81] Jackson has said he refused to take action because he did not believe it was worth the risk of a military confrontation with the Russians, instead insisting that troops led by Captain James Blunt encircle the airfield.

No way! James Blunt, of all people, appears in this story?! You couldn't make it up!

[–] rekliner@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago

Huh, I didn't click the Wikipedia link until I read your comment because I assumed it was a name coincidence. Man, that guy has had one hell of a life.

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[–] PabloPicasshole@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago (2 children)

“You see, first thing we did was teach it about the Bible and its teachings. Of course none of that Roman Catholic shit.”

[–] itsnotlupus@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago

No True Christian would ever activate a fully automated sentry killbot that doesn't use at least one of its compute cores to pray to the Almighty on a loop.

[–] Brunbrun6766@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago

We taught it the Bible*

*King James Version

[–] grte@lemmy.ca 1 points 2 years ago

...That doesn't instill me with a lot of confidence.

Can you please leave us out of this?

Sincerely, The Jews

[–] itsgroundhogdayagain@lemmy.ml 1 points 2 years ago

this is one of the most ridiculous statements I've ever heard.

[–] cloventt@lemmy.nz 1 points 2 years ago

Is this satire? If not, good lord.

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