this post was submitted on 11 Dec 2023
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President Joe Biden goes into next year's election with a vexing challenge: Just as the U.S. economy is getting stronger, people are still feeling horrible about it.

Pollsters and economists say there has never been as wide a gap between the underlying health of the economy and public perception. The divergence could be a decisive factor in whether the Democrat secures a second term next year. Republicans are seizing on the dissatisfaction to skewer Biden, while the White House is finding less success as it tries to highlight economic progress.

“Things are getting better and people think things are going to get worse — and that’s the most dangerous piece of this," said Democratic pollster Celinda Lake, who has worked with Biden. Lake said voters no longer want to just see inflation rates fall — rather, they want an outright decline in prices, something that last happened on a large scale during the Great Depression.

“Honestly, I’m kind of mystified by it,” she said.

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[–] Fades@lemmy.world 88 points 11 months ago (1 children)

the grocery stores and the rest of the capitalist pigs have yet to stop price gouging

[–] tacosplease@lemmy.world 28 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Groceries really are the problem. I lived comfortably up until about a year ago. Now the checking account gets pretty low every couple weeks. And that's with decent raises for me and my wife. I don't even care about gas prices except in how they add to the cost of everything that gets shipped. Food prices are killing us.

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[–] TheBananaKing@lemmy.world 84 points 11 months ago (13 children)

Whenever anyone says "the economy", you can and should mentally substitute it with "rich people's yacht money".

Rich people's yacht money doing well doesn't do shit for 90% of the population. It doesn't pay the rent, put food on the table or clothes on their back. They can't afford to see a doctor or ride the damn bus.

And you want them to be happy because some stockbroker is getting a second holiday in the Maldives this year?

Stupid arrogant fucks.

[–] Ultraviolet@lemmy.world 34 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (4 children)

That's why they say "unemployment being too low is bad for the economy". Low unemployment means higher negotiating power for workers, which means higher wages and better working conditions. The only way that statement makes any sense is if they're exclusively talking about yacht money.

[–] jaybone@lemmy.world 7 points 11 months ago

But the rules of supply and demand should only apply to the consumer, not the producer.

[–] radiosimian@lemmy.world 6 points 11 months ago

Don't even start on the wage-inflation-spiral idea. It's the workers' fault for wanting higher wages as it allows service-oriented business to charge higher prices, driving inflation.

While the theory probably has roots in real-world pricing algorithms (eg how much can we charge people in X region for Netflix) that rise in cost contributes to inflation figures. The fact that wages have been stagnant for decades undermines the whole argument.

"Well the poors can afford it and the shareholders will love it!" FFS

[–] Phlogiston@lemmy.world 3 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Low unemployment means higher negotiating power for workers

Too bad all those "right to work" people have been actively fighting against negotiation powers for workers. But lets blame the 'yacht owners' and piss and moan about how they take advantage of the lopsided negotiation powers we voted in for them.

I know! We should put exclusively yacht owners in power! They'll totally fix it. /s

[–] TheBananaKing@lemmy.world 3 points 11 months ago

Similarly, when they say NAIRU, you can and should mentally substitute "inexhaustible scab labour pool".

[–] Fades@lemmy.world 4 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Not at all. You’re missing the forest for the trees lmao

The problem is that no matter how much inflation goes down, if the price gouging capitalists that own the grocery stores, the gas stations, and so on don’t stop.

It’s not about rich people’s yacht it’s about the American people being taken advantage of simply because they can. The economy is doing a lot better, record low unemployment for example is a huge metric here but what difference does that make when the grocery stores are selling less for more money?

You’re crying about rich people’s yachts when you should be crying about record price gouging without any cause. Those yachts don’t have impact on the average American’s QoL but price gouging absolutely does.

[–] TheBananaKing@lemmy.world 9 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

When investors do better, nobody else does better. The whole system is based on harvesting wealth from society as a whole, and concentrating it in the top 1%. Ever hear of the Gini coefficient?

Yes, price-gouging companies jacking up their prices and paying fuckall in wages are the direct instrument of suffering. But they do so in order to provide yacht money for the investor class, and in so doing they impoverish literally everyone else.

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[–] Sterile_Technique@lemmy.world 84 points 11 months ago (3 children)

If "the economy" doesn't translate to the purchasing power of our labor, then it's a useless metric.

[–] negativeyoda@lemmy.world 22 points 11 months ago

But stock market go up! You're welcome!

[–] Fades@lemmy.world 22 points 11 months ago

it’s about capitalist scum pice gouging the fuck out of people for literally everything. The economy is doing better but we don’t see it directly because we’re still being abused as if the economy hasn’t upturned

[–] Asafum@feddit.nl 18 points 11 months ago

"We just don't get it, our portfolios are performing so well! I just sit here and rake in money how can the ~~poors~~ people not love this economy!?"

[–] grue@lemmy.world 74 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Pollsters and economists say there has never been as wide a gap between the underlying health of the economy and public perception.

There's never been as wide a gap between the rich and the working class, either. Gee, I wonder if that could have something to do with it?!

[–] agent_flounder@lemmy.world 19 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

I assumed that was true. The article, however, claims

Inequality has lessened somewhat in recent years as wage growth has favored poorer workers.

Ed: even if the article is correct, the gap is still massive. And so the increased profits (due to price gouging) may make some numbers look better, I can't help but think many households are still struggling to catch up?

Supposedly pay has increased across the board but enough to catch us up to, say, 2019 buying power? The article claims households are better off than in 2020.

The article seems to want to blame those with dim views of the economy without a satisfactory explanation of the psychology, just a bunch of guesses that, to me, don't seem convincing. The supporting evidence seems rather cherry picked.

If food is up 25% since the pandemic, have all wages also gone up that much? Ok, ok, sure, overall cost of living probably hasn't gone up that much. But my wages most certainly have not even come close to catching up with the current COL.

So maybe it is the middle classes, rather than lowest earners, who are feeling shafted. Maybe those in charge aren't looking at the right statistics to understand the perceptions.

[–] SpacetimeMachine@lemmy.world 18 points 11 months ago

Inequality has lessened somewhat in recent years as wage growth has favored poorer workers

Also that means pretty much nothing without also looking at how much more money the richest of us have. Their wealth increases by the trillions during covid. To say that inequality is now better because some of the lowest earning workers might be making a few thousand more each year is disingenuous at best.

[–] winterayars@sh.itjust.works 4 points 11 months ago

Never been as wide a gap between pollsters and the public.

[–] JJROKCZ@lemmy.world 49 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Because they’re calling the stock market “the economy” instead of actually looking at the qol of the average American. It’s just more ammo for the government only cares about the rich and corps argument

[–] Fades@lemmy.world 8 points 11 months ago (2 children)

No, no they aren’t, your comment is simplifying the issues here, not sure if you just don’t know what you’re talking about or what.

Things like record lows for unemployment for example, nothing to do with the stock market. There have been a lot of important wins for Americans.

with that said, the number one reason it hasn’t touched the QoL for the average American is because all of these capitalist pigs refuse to stop price gouging. That is where it hits us, the gas tank the grocery store, etc. they skyrocketed prices while shrinking sizes and all that because fuck you

Open your fucking eyes, the bigger problem is our out of control corporations

[–] MrPoopbutt@lemmy.world 19 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Unemployment is a bullshit number. There are a lot of ways you can be uncounted in those numbers.

Not saying I am aware of a better number, or if one even exists.

[–] dragonflyteaparty@lemmy.world 9 points 11 months ago

I don't know either, but it's absolute bullshit. As far as I know, unemployment only counts only those who are looking for work, but can't find it. What about those unemployed, want to be employed, couldn't find a job, and gave up?

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[–] ChicoSuave@lemmy.world 39 points 11 months ago (3 children)
[–] Mr_Blott@lemmy.world 19 points 11 months ago

The people selling missiles to Israel

[–] GuyDudeman@lemmy.world 12 points 11 months ago

voters no longer want to just see inflation rates fall — rather, they want an outright decline in prices, something that last happened on a large scale during the Great Depression.

“Honestly, I’m kind of mystified by it,” she said.

Why the fuck would anyone be “mystified” by the fact that shit is still way more expensive than it used to be, and we’re still only getting paid what we used to be?

Fucking liberals.

[–] Fermion@mander.xyz 7 points 11 months ago (1 children)

The people who bought homes at 3% interest rates are doing fairly ok. The increases in Healthcare, food, and utilities really suck but are mostly manageable if your housing cost is fixed.

Until we see policy makers talking about how rent prices are outstripping any wage increases, a large portion of the population will continue to feel increasingly crushed and disenfranchised. Averages cease being useful measures when the difference between the budgeting with a fixed mortgage vs variable rent is so significant.

Fortunately, I am in the first group, but had been renting for a long time before that. A lot of people I care about are still renters or stuck living with family. Even though I'm comfortable, I can't take anyone seriously who says this economy is healthy without addressing the millions of people struggling to make ends meet.

I really wish we'd see policy makers shift to measures of quality of life, including financial security, over raw economic metrics. Those metrics are even sometimes at odds to each other. For example, people fully owning durable homes and cars that don't need much maintenance would increase their quality of life, but decrease measures of economic activity.

[–] aesthelete@lemmy.world 3 points 11 months ago

Until we see policy makers talking about how rent prices are outstripping any wage increases, a large portion of the population will continue to feel increasingly crushed and disenfranchised.

Need to bring back the mustache mayoral candidate guy.

[–] Wooster@startrek.website 36 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Second, Biden recently started to blame inflation on corporations that hiked prices when they saw an opportunity to improve their profits, bringing more prominence to an argument first used when gasoline prices spiked. The president's argument is suspicious to many economists, yet the intended message to voters is that Biden is fighting for them against those he blames for fueling inflation.

“Let me be clear: Any corporation that is not passing these savings on to the consumers needs to stop their price gouging,” Biden said recently in Pueblo, Colorado. “The American people are tired of being played for suckers.”

Wow. There's no question who's side the reporter is on.

[–] lightnsfw@reddthat.com 4 points 11 months ago (6 children)

“Let me be clear: Any corporation that is not passing these savings on to the consumers needs to stop their price gouging,” Biden said recently in Pueblo, Colorado. “The American people are tired of being played for suckers.”

Then do something about it.

[–] Ashyr@sh.itjust.works 7 points 11 months ago (1 children)

He isn't a dictator. He needs at least another branch of government to get the most effective solutions in place.

He has been insanely effective despite having a broken Congress and brazenly corrupt Supreme Court.

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[–] girlfreddy@lemmy.world 33 points 11 months ago (5 children)

“Things are getting better and people think things are going to get worse ...

Because they are worse ... because many people don't have a well-paying job as a pollster ... and it's expected that the price of groceries will still rise in 2024 ... and rent will still go up ... and fires/droughts/storms/heatwaves will get worse ... and electricity/water bills will still go up ...

It always surprises me when otherwise intelligent people seem to set aside their critical thinking skills.

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 23 points 11 months ago (1 children)

The problem is that lots of people think Trump will fix all of that rather than make it far worse.

[–] VentraSqwal@links.dartboard.social 3 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

He bullied the Feds into lowering the interest rates low for so long and extended the pandemic, so I content a lot of this is his fault to begin with.

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[–] homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world 30 points 11 months ago

Abcnews shut the fuck up. You republiQan corporate pulp mill fuckers.

“Voters feel horrible about it” fuck you.

[–] jordanlund@lemmy.world 16 points 11 months ago

I came in here to try to explain it again and find post after post of people explaining it for me. I am so proud of you guys.

Now, somebody tell the DNC that...

[–] mlg@lemmy.world 15 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I swear this is like the 5th "Economy is great but people are suffering for some weird reason" article on this community lmao

And every single time without fail everyone in the comments is showing a big middle finger to these awful pieces lol

[–] KinglyWeevil@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 11 months ago

It always feels like a conservative saying something about "states rights."

Sure the economy is good. But good for whom?

[–] TransSynthesist@lemmy.blahaj.zone 14 points 11 months ago

Remember kids, 'the economy' means 'rich people's portfolios'.

Lake said voters no longer want to just see inflation rates fall — rather, they want an outright decline in prices, something that last happened on a large scale during the Great Depression.

“Honestly, I’m kind of mystified by it,” she said.

My dad told me once: "never trust the words that come out after the 'honestly' or before the 'but'."

[–] Fedizen@lemmy.world 4 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

This is because economists don't knock on doors or talk to people.

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