this post was submitted on 09 Aug 2023
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115
YSK that YouTube shadow bans people (for a time) + implications to creators (monyet.cc)
submitted 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) by ruk_n_rul@monyet.cc to c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world
49 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

I'm having my comments I made the past few days receive zero engagements. It's not just me losing the early bird lottery too; my replies to a highly engaged comment has zero likes, while several comments immediately after me has double digits. It's nothing incendiary at all, just normal people's comments. But something just tripped the enigmatic AI and thenceforth I'm shadow banned.

Why you should know this?

Because YouTube is being a thought police between creators and their communities. It feels to me like 99.999% of creators on YouTube have no idea that this is happening, that honest to goodness people's engagements are never going to reach them on the platform; they're being silently silenced, by an AI that is figuratively a black box.

Look at this screenshot. If that's not damning evidence you tell me what is.

Imgur

The comment is straight up gone when viewing with a logged out tab. I'm definitely 100% shadow banned right now.
all 50 comments
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[–] Pratai@lemmy.ca 138 points 1 year ago (12 children)

TIL people take commenting on YouTube seriously.

[–] IWantToFuckSpez@kbin.social 17 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yeah I’ve blocked the comments section with uBlock. Most of the time it’s just garbage in there.

[–] bigkahuna1986@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Me: watching a car repair video

Some asshat: dId YoU kNoW bIdEn eAtS bAbBy'S?!

[–] FiskFisk33@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

a link to a religios video completely unrelated to the discussion

[–] ruk_n_rul@monyet.cc 0 points 1 year ago (5 children)

I take supporting creators with engagements seriously.

[–] echo64@lemmy.world 27 points 1 year ago (1 children)

youtube doesn't actually care if you comment, "engagement" is through sharing, and watching. that's all youtube cares about for engagement. how many watch hours, how many adverts, how many click throughs on those adverts.

also literally every large social network has shadow bans, it's the only successful way to deal with unwanted elements. if you tell the unwanted element that they are banned, then they just go make a new account.

[–] zeograd@lemmy.world 19 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Actually, it seems like engagement is through any kind of interaction, commenting, upvoting, even downvoting, are used to boost a video visibility, because, as you say, their ultimate goal is maximizing money from ads.

OP is right to support creators via comments.

Note also that YouTube has automatic filters for comments, which will remain visible for its author only, but the creator can also shadowban someone from their channel.

[–] echo64@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

"actually", no it doesn't. that's the old youtube logic. now youtube actively buries any kind of engagement like comments or liking, it's not useful. youtube does not care about who is leaving comments or not, and leaving comments itself is highly susceptible to bots.

again, all youtube cares about is about watch time, and if you share something with someone else as that leads to more watch time. people arguing in the comments has zero relevance on how many ads people see.

[–] zeograd@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

It was my understanding from years ago. If it changed in between, I stand corrected.

[–] Pratai@lemmy.ca 5 points 1 year ago

Commenting isn’t support. Not sure if you know that. see, I’m commenting on your post- this is not support.

[–] SaakoPaahtaa@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Probably shouldnt. Youtube comments are rightful Serbian soil and should be treated as such

[–] Candelestine@lemmy.ca 4 points 1 year ago

This comment is hilarious, and it being downvoted is sad.

[–] Haus@kbin.social 0 points 1 year ago

Remove kommentkebab!

[–] Carighan@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

Then you would not comment on their videos, and the whole thought of "supporting" them via watching their videos is questionable but at least there's some direct, material, merit to that.

[–] BilboBargains@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I like adverts and hammering nails into my head.

[–] ruk_n_rul@monyet.cc -3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

"I only watch trashy scumbag creators and not nice ones who actually struggles when engagements really fluctuates on a whim. I also have never been on the other side to emphatize with them."

It's like Reddit. If you only consume trash the algo gives you you're not using it right.

[–] BilboBargains@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Article one, an electronics expert performs a circuit analysis.

Article two, a philosopher performs a societal analysis

Which one of these is 'doing it right'?

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[–] whatuptrey@lemmy.world 46 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It’s probably the owner of the channel that shadow banned you. As a creator, I have an option to “Hide User From Channel” any user I want, which is effectively shadow banning them.

[–] Shialac@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago

Might also be a blacklisted word or something, there is sometimes really weird stuff on these

[–] kep@lemmy.world 44 points 1 year ago (2 children)

This was a hard post to read.

You're not shadowbanned from YouTube. The creator you're commenting on has simply "hid" you from their channel. Which ironically is a shadowban, just on a creator level.

The level of panic and outrage you've displayed here despite not having a clue as to how the mechanic you're discussing works is remarkable.

[–] orcrist@lemm.ee 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

How can we tell if the creator shadowbanned or if YT did it? Sometimes my comments are hidden within seconds, and it's possible the creator is that fast, but I also suspect key word based filtering.

[–] BrikoX@lemmy.zip 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

That's incorrect. Here is a decent video explaining it https://yewtu.be/watch?v=48ObNiT_hpM

[–] Hyperreality@kbin.social 36 points 1 year ago (2 children)

More generally, it's an important reminder for content creators that their entire youtube career is built on quick sand.

You can be earning a decent living one day, the next day youtube can block your account or remove monetisation for no valid reason, and you're shit out of luck.

I mean, if you're making a lot of money on youtube, power to you. But you should be saving as much as possible for that day and have a back-up plan. It may never come, it may come tomorrow.

I cringed when one creator mentioned giving up on her degree to focus on youtube. I mean, sure she's making bank right now. But who knows how long that'll last.

[–] BrerChicken@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago

I cringed when one creator mentioned giving up on her degree to focus on youtube. I mean, sure she's making bank right now. But who knows how long that'll last.

Unlike their YT career, that degree course will probably be there in five years. It'll be more expensive, but it's not gone forever or anything like that. For some opportunities you really have to strike while the iron is hot. For the record, I'm a HS teacher and I've had the "so you want to be a YouTuber for a living" conversation with countless students over the years, including with my own child. But for someone who's starting to get some traction, and wants to take time off of school to see where it leads them, I think it's an understandable move.

[–] DrQuint@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

You don't have to finish a degree before you're 25 to make use of it. Hell, plenty of people have two or even three degrees.

She does YouTube now, and she'll have huge financial security to finish the degree later. Hell, she'll have a degree that's probably up-to-date with her field at the time she'll actually use it, as opposed to getting one now and having to explain that her lack of work experience after getting it was due to "youtube".

[–] Carighan@lemmy.world 14 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

AITA for thinking shadowbanning - as a concept - is actually a good thing?

It allows a sort of ban-on-probation. A way to isolate and observe in isolation whether someone exitibits ban-worthy behavior, while already protecting others from said behavior.

Yes, often banning would be preferrable. But I can also see why immediately going to hard ban is not warranted in many cases. Not everyone is an Alex Jones or a Donald Trump.

Now whether or not this specific case, or even Youtube's use of shadowbanning is good or bad... eh, different beast.

[–] TheEntity@kbin.social 9 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I can see where you are coming from, though I must disagree with the implementation of this system. Firstly, it's applying a de facto punishment without ever informing the target about them being punished in the first place. For all we know they might not even be aware they should refrain from certain behaviors. Secondly, they either did deserve a punishment or they didn't. It doesn't need to be a "ban or not ban" situation, I'm all for more nuance (a warning, a short-term ban, you get the idea), but we shouldn't just put anyone on probation just in case, just to observe them in isolation first.

[–] PrinzKasper@kbin.social 10 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Shadow Banning is very useful for spam bots. If you let them know they're banned, they'll just open a new account. But if YouTube keeps accepting their comments with a smile on its face before immediately tossing those comments into the shredder, it'll take some time before the bot figures out what's going on.

[–] TheEntity@kbin.social 2 points 1 year ago

Good point, I didn't consider the bot scenario. I can see it working here. Same thing with very obvious bad actors. What I oppose is using it as a regular punishment for regular users just crossing boundaries.

[–] theamigan@lemmy.dynatron.me 3 points 1 year ago

We're not talking about habeas corpus, we're talking about the dubious ability to post on a private website's comments section that has been widely regarded as a cesspool for over a decade. As someone else in this thread pointed out, this is being taken too seriously.

[–] red@sopuli.xyz 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It's an age old system that was called "cave the trolls" at first. If you let a problematic user know he is banned, he will simply create a new account.

Isolating the troll however frees up moderator time spending, as it will usually take a good while for the person to realize he is in fact isolated.

They should add dummy upvotes and AI generate replies to these troll's comments too. That would make it even harder to realize.

[–] Carighan@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

True, now with AI we have the ability to make shadowbanned people not realize for a long time that something has happened to their account. And as you say, it's far more efficient than just banning them.

[–] TheDubz87@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago

I don't doubt this given YouTube record with the creators themselves. YouTube is a slimy company.

[–] donut4ever@lemm.ee 4 points 1 year ago

I've noticed this for a long time, but never really cared. Also, on some accounts, it just removes my comment completely until I manipulate it to not piss off the gods

[–] sagrotan@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

IMO at least the educational content of YouTube shouldn't be in private have entirely, too important today.

[–] TimeMuncher@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago

Happening to one of my accounts from years. I don't know which YT mod has a beef with me, but all the comments i make using that account get deleted in a minute on any channel. So i stopped using YT and use newpipe only. I don't even have the YT app on my phone.