this post was submitted on 11 Oct 2023
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THE POLICE PROBLEM

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    The police problem is that police are policed by the police. Cops are accountable only to other cops, which is no accountability at all.

    99.9999% of police brutality, corruption, and misconduct is never investigated, never punished, never makes the news, so it's not on this page.

    When cops are caught breaking the law, they're investigated by other cops. Details are kept quiet, the officers' names are withheld from public knowledge, and what info is eventually released is only what police choose to release — often nothing at all.

    When police are fired — which is all too rare — they leave with 'law enforcement experience' and can easily find work in another police department nearby. It's called "Wandering Cops."

    When police testify under oath, they lie so frequently that cops themselves have a joking term for it: "testilying." Yet it's almost unheard of for police to be punished or prosecuted for perjury.

    Cops can and do get away with lawlessness, because cops protect other cops. If they don't, they aren't cops for long.

    The legal doctrine of "qualified immunity" renders police officers invulnerable to lawsuits for almost anything they do. In practice, getting past 'qualified immunity' is so unlikely, it makes headlines when it happens.

    All this is a path to a police state.

    In a free society, police must always be under serious and skeptical public oversight, with non-cops and non-cronies in charge, issuing genuine punishment when warranted.

    Police who break the law must be prosecuted like anyone else, promptly fired if guilty, and barred from ever working in law-enforcement again.

    That's the solution.

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Our definition of ‘cops’ is broad, and includes prison guards, probation officers, shitty DAs and judges, etc — anyone who has the authority to fuck over people’s lives, with minimal or no oversight.

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RULES

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Please don't dox or post calls for harassment, vigilantism, tar & feather attacks, etc.

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ALLIES

!abolition@slrpnk.net

!acab@lemmygrad.ml

r/ACAB

r/BadCopNoDonut/

Randy Balko

The Civil Rights Lawyer

The Honest Courtesan

Identity Project

MirandaWarning.org

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INFO

A demonstrator's guide to understanding riot munitions

Adultification

Cops aren't supposed to be smart

Don't talk to the police.

Killings by law enforcement in Canada

Killings by law enforcement in the United Kingdom

Killings by law enforcement in the United States

Know your rights: Filming the police

Three words. 70 cases. The tragic history of 'I can’t breathe' (as of 2020)

Police aren't primarily about helping you or solving crimes.

Police lie under oath, a lot

Police spin: An object lesson in Copspeak

Police unions and arbitrators keep abusive cops on the street

Shielded from Justice: Police Brutality and Accountability in the United States

So you wanna be a cop?

When the police knock on your door

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ORGANIZATIONS

Black Lives Matter

Campaign Zero

Innocence Project

The Marshall Project

Movement Law Lab

NAACP

National Police Accountability Project

Say Their Names

Vera: Ending Mass Incarceration

 

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[–] krashmo@lemmy.world 33 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The Castle Doctrine says a person can use defensive force if he believes someone is entering his home unlawfully and forcibly, because there’s a presumption that the person breaking in by force is there to commit violence.

At first glance, it looked like Laramore was justified to shoot Mascorro under the Castle Doctrine.

But then another statute, 6-2-602c, says that presumption of violence doesn’t apply to police who are performing their official duties.

Erramouspe hit a quandary here.

The statute exempts police who are performing their official duties, but it doesn’t stipulate that those duties must be lawful.

Erramouspe hinted that lawmakers can fix this discrepancy.

“By leaving the term lawful out of this statute, the Legislature has decreed that the officer does not have to be acting lawfully, but only in the performance of his ‘official duties,’” he wrote. “Mascorro was not acting lawfully by forcing his way into Laramore’s habitation; however, he was indeed in the performance of his official duties.”

If Laramore had survived, that portion of Wyoming’s self-defense laws wouldn’t have justified him to shoot Mascorro, Erramouspe added.

What a batshit crazy legal justification. They've literally said here that it doesn't matter if the cop is breaking the law or not. If he's in uniform he can kill you and be justified in it. That is insane.

[–] DougHolland@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago

This was the conclusion that was wanted. If this same situation had happened in reverse — if Buck Laramore had broken into police sergeant Mike Mascorro's home and shot and killed him — it would never have been ruled 'self-defense', and Mr Laramore would never see life beyond prison walls.

[–] circuscritic@lemmy.ca 14 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Look, there was no other options. The cop had to break in to his house because.. checks notes.. he was suspected of using meth.

And honestly, who could have seen that breaking into a meth users house could have resulted in violence?

Thank God the special prosecutors also agree with the flawless logic that I have summarized above.

[–] zeppo@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

He was there to arrest the guy for defying him in the meth “investigation”… giving a slightly wrong name and birth date, declining a blood test and refusing to give his address. They found meth in the McDonald’s bathroom but “he was the last one to come out of it” is pretty flimsy. Pretty ridiculous to send an officer and K9 to shake down the McDonald’s bathroom in the first place. Every restaurant I ever worked in would have sent the dog into a frenzy. Hopefully this made an impression on whatever idiot called the cops about that in the first place.

[–] some_guy@lemmy.sdf.org 6 points 1 year ago

Erramouspe hinted that lawmakers can fix this discrepancy.

“By leaving the term lawful out of this statute, the Legislature has decreed that the officer does not have to be acting lawfully, but only in the performance of his ‘official duties,’” he wrote. “Mascorro was not acting lawfully by forcing his way into Laramore’s habitation; however, he was indeed in the performance of his official duties.”

[–] iHUNTcriminals@lemm.ee 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Just break every bone in the cops body till they're dust. It's all gang shit... fuck gangs. Mainstream is just as fucked as the underground.

[–] sadreality@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago

Cops can't break the law if they are the law

[–] shalafi@lemmy.world -2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Hell of a lot to unpack here, but I'll throw something out that many might not have seen.

A footnote in the decision says the investigation later revealed that Laramore had two rounds in his .45 pistol and he fired them both.

A self-defense gun is not a magic kill machine. Nor is it a, "Get off me!" talisman. And it goes without saying a gun is certainly not a, "Look at my gun and go away!" option. Pulling a gun on another human being says, "I intend to kill you to stop what you're doing." Pulling a gun is the end of ALL options. Full stop.

All that to say, Laramore was not prepared to kill anyone with 2 rounds in his gun. He should never have picked it up if he wasn't trained and prepared for self-defense. Guns are not fucking toys, and I have a solid feeling Laramore thought, well... whatever he thought was clearly wrong.

No, this is not victim blaming, just an observation that hopefully reaches anyone with a gun on their nightstand or thinking about getting one.

Yes, he would likely be facing life in a concrete and steel box had he prevailed. Which is exactly the result my conceal carry instructor taught. "If you shoot another person, you better have made the decision that life in prison was the better alternative. Because it may well work out that way."

[–] DougHolland@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

A self-defense gun is not a magic kill machine. Nor is it a, “Get off me!” talisman. And it goes without saying a gun is certainly not a, “Look at my gun and go away!” option. Pulling a gun on another human being says, “I intend to kill you to stop what you’re doing.” Pulling a gun is the end of ALL options. Full stop.

Are you an episode of The Rifleman? Pulling and pointing a gun is not an announcement that “I intend to kill you to stop what you’re doing.” It's announcement that you're willing, which is not the same. Unless you're immediately squeezing the trigger, pointing a gun is: “Look at my gun and go away!”

[–] shalafi@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

My god no. If you go as far as to draw, your intent is to kill, or you don't draw, or show. (In fact, just waving a gun about is considered "brandishing" and may be illegal where you live.)

Violence happens in fractions of a second. You don't get to announce your intentions and see what happens next.

If you don't get that, all good! But please don't carry a gun.

I am a peaceful man because I choose peace. If you don't have the choice, you are merely harmless.

[–] DougHolland@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago

Still trying, but still not seeing what you're saying.

I've had guns pointed at me but not been shot. The intent wasn't to shoot me or kill me. The intent was to get my attention. It worked. I'm still alive, and that's a valid purpose for drawing a gun.

To be clear, I'm not talking about this incident, only talking about pulling and pointing a gun.

[–] Ikenshini@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The difference between the two is simply a squeeze of the finger, which happens under a second. If the person on the other side of the gun does not respond as if the gun pointed at them will immediately be fired, they could die if they presume it's just a "warning", and have a natural right to self defense.

Real life isn't television.

[–] DougHolland@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Your point remains invisible to me. What are you saying with lines like,

Pulling a gun is the end of ALL options. Full stop.

?

After pulling a gun, numerous options remain.

[–] Ikenshini@lemmy.world -1 points 1 year ago

lmao you just replied to your own comment not understanding what you wrote. We're done here.