People are avoiding supporting lemmy monetarily due to the actions of the developers. We do not reward bad behaviors here. If lemmy development ends most of us will just move to kbin or piefed. This is a non-issue.
Meta (lemm.ee)
lemm.ee Meta
This is a community for discussion about this particular Lemmy instance.
News and updates about lemm.ee will be posted here, so if that's something that interests you, make sure to subscribe!
Rules:
- Support requests belong in !support
- Only posts about topics directly related to lemm.ee are allowed
- If you don't have anything constructive to add, then do not post/comment here. Low effort memes, trolling, etc is not allowed.
- If you are from another instance, you may participate in discussions, but remain respectful. Realize that your comments will inevitably be associated with your instance by many lemm.ee users.
If you're a Discord user, you can also join our Discord server: https://discord.gg/XM9nZwUn9K
Discord is only a back-up channel, !meta@lemm.ee will always be the main place for lemm.ee communications.
If you need help with anything, please post in !support instead.
Mbin, not Kbin. Kbin is dead.
There actually is one instance left, a tiny little hold-over in Poland, last I checked, but everyone else that was using Kbin has since switched to Mbin.
Except me personally, who switched to PieFed (which is fantastic btw!:-).
Just like with Elon Musk, if someone wants people to support them monetarily, they shouldn't work hard to make themselves objectionable to wide swaths of the population they are trying to extract money from.
What actions of the developers are you talking about? I’m not trying to start a fight, I’m honestly out of the loop or whatever.
I imagine the biggest point are the censorship, disinformation and tankie allegations. These are all documented in this post. Another point worth bringing up is that they are the admins of lemmy.ml, where most of the allegations happen. Lemmy.ml also has something of a tankie problem and one of the devs has said that the donations will also cover the cost of running the instance. So by donating to the devs you're also donating to an instance that possibly has no problem with censorship, disinformation and harboring tankies.
I would be willing to turn a blind eye if I could trust the devs to step away from lemmy.ml and focus solely on the development of Lemmy. But I don't trust the devs enough to actually do that so I personally won't be supporting Lemmy development until someone else becomes the maintainer of Lemmy.
EDIT: just to cover off the inevitable "what will happen if we stop supporting Lemmy. I don't want to go back to Reddit" fear. If Lemmy doesn't work out and it gets abandoned there's always Mbin. Anyone here from the Reddit exodus knows that it's annoying to migrate but Mbin can federate with Lemmy which means going from Lemmy to Mbin is going to be less painful than form Reddit to Lemmy.
Mbin is one example, PieFed is another. Both are superb!:-)
AND it's open source software. Nothing is stopping anyone from just forking Lemmy.
Hmm glad I found this post and the comments. I recently came here from Reddit and joined some random communities just to have something in my feed. I was a bit shocked at hammer and sickle posted non-ironically in the meme group. Noting that communists weren't better than Nazis got me called an ungrateful shit for existing (which I apparently owe to Stalin) and banned. Moved to the second-biggest meme community the search found, where I'm not banned yet but being educated by Westerners that life in communist coutries was cheerful and Holodomor was an oopsie.
I'm glad to hear that this is not all that Lemmy stands for, but a bit disappointed learning that top developers are a part of the problem. I'm conflicted about donating to say the least, and it does not bode well for lemmy adoption in general. I'll stick around to see if other servers gain momentum, but I'll need to keep an eye open for other reddit alternatives I guess
Most of Lemmy is fine - just avoid the tankie triad of lemmygrad, lemmy.ml, and hexbear and you should be good to go.
Edit: And maybe also the instances that haven't defederated hexbear in particular, since when they show up threads tend to go to shit, as you're seeing here, unfortunately.
I've been around for long enough, time for me to donate.
Sure the two top admins have some shitty opinions, but they still are the main people who have put this software out. The two have been tirelessly working on it for years and years, and have made code that helps everyone, whether you share their opinions or not.
You are paying for their programming, not their opinions. I dont think its a big deal if they have flaws or opinions i dont agree with.
So they dont like trans people. How does that even matter? Any trans person can use the platform anyway. The code doesnt have any opinions, its just code, and that code can be used to support trans people. The little opinions of the devs have no effect on this.
I cant believe how spoiled some people are here. We have a platform, free of ads, quality mobile apps, lots of instances, quite a lot of users. And its not owned by big tech. We own it.
Focus on the pluses here. I dont think another Lemmy will come along anytime soon. Alternatives are not even close in quality.
I'd like to join my voice with those saying it's worth donating even if you disagree with the devs personally. My impression is they're decent about making Lemmy a tech project not a personal political platform, and treating the Internet respectfully as a forum.
The Lemmy software supports so many communities to communicate, including the huge lemmy.world that famously hates .ml. Because the software is open, it can do that freely.
You who hate capitalism, do you donate your ad data to capitalists so they can grow sickeningly rich off your use of their software? Then you might at least let these devs live comfortably off your use of the software. And if you pay in ways you see, instead of ways you don't, does that trouble you so much?
You don't have to agree. And you can still use Lemmy freely! But since this software has been such a blessing to us wanting a non-reddit platform, I hope many will be happy to bless the devs back - and they're only asking for a modest salary.
My impression is they're decent about making Lemmy a tech project not a personal political platform
But... isn't it impossible to donate solely to the software, when they also will use the funds to pay server costs for lemmy.ml? The referenced post did not exactly highlight that little tidbit of information... yet isn't it true nonetheless?
Yes, but as pointed out elsewhere,
- it works out about 2% of your donation, if that
- the devs would be entitled to spend their salary on personal projects anyhow, it's an effective salary not ngo funds
- .ml serves as a useful test server and public beta for the rest of Lemmy
- it's effectively funding every instance, by providing the software - by that metric, the opposite .world gets the larger share
- because of the small scales, ordinarily there's not a lot of sense to separate .ml funding because it's so small. It's not like the devs are being devious
To me, that stacks up fairly.
I'm just being pedantic, but also the problem seems easily solved by having someone else moderate that instance, while they focus on just the coding.
Of course they are 100% free to do as they choose and I would not dream of wanting them to do otherwise.
Then too, the people deciding whether to donate can do the same - and it seems that the rather unusual moderation practices of lemmy.ml are a sticking point for whether they want to contribute funds or not. The amount of those funds, whether the devs have the "right" to do so or not, that is all besides the point. Some people just don't like to fund things like genocide, period.
But now we are veering into political territory that I know less about. Thank you for sharing those facts about the situation, as I continue to learn about it that is very helpful:-).
it’s worth donating even if you disagree with the devs personally. My impression is they’re decent about making Lemmy a tech project not a personal political platform, and treating the Internet respectfully
I want to underline this. And ask the reader to put themselves in the devs' shoes for a moment.
Usually, when people have strong opinions, like extreme political views, they try to further their goal wherever they can. To abstain from that desire, and create tools which can be freely used, even by their political enemies, requires a considerable amount of decency and deserves our respect.
Either this, or they value FOSS so much (more), that they still keep Lemmy open for everyone.
In a way, they support people from the opposite side of the political spectrum, by providing them their platform freely. Isn't that exemplary in putting the fedi spirit above political differences?
The devs also say that they would gladly accept any development help as well, if you're either unwilling or unable to financially contribute.
The original post on lemmy.ml by the creator of Lemmy had a lot more details, so maybe just link to that one?
https://lemmy.ml/post/29579005
Tldr: They are down to about 1000 dollars per developer and will have to take jobs and stop Lemmy development if they dont get 2500 dollars per developer.
I signed up for a medium donation.
While I don't agree with some things happening on .ml We should not discard imperfect allies. Thank you devs for the great work you're doing.
thanks for the post sir, happy to throw a few money units in
It's so sad that liberals will literally cozy up to fascists and monetarily support them however they can... But a FOSS project run by commies gets them clutching their pearls super hard
Just had a whole argument about this on that lemmyworld post that's at the top about boycotting ml cuz someone brought up how they can't donate if the developers are gonna use some of that money on ml server cost. They can't see the bigger picture. Instead they wanna cry over how their $5 or whatever donation is gonna be used. Pathetic.
i reported a fundraising website for the ukrainian neonazi and murderer sternenko and thats still up, but talking politics online is just inexcusable
I came here because reddit is turning into a corporate shithole. Users getting banned because of Luigi apologia and so on and so on. Was really relieved that we did in fact have a great, open source alternative to reddit.
My problem is the lead developers of this platform. They do not see the issues with their political bias being woven into their platform (and their transphobia), it will face the exact same shit thats happening to reddit today.
I can't pay money to people who deny the pain of trans people. I just can't. And if the lead developers of Lemmy run out of funds, well then I guess they'll have to just take a good look in the mirror if they don't see the reason why Lemmy failed. For now I'm gonna use lemmy if I can, but you can't expect people from reddit to come here and support you guys when their is really hateful shit being spewed by those people (tankies).
Dessalines and Nutomic are criminally underpaid. Lemmy development still has a long way to go and we could get there much faster if people donated more. But in typical Lemmy fashion, people would rather sit on their high horses and throw stones from their glass houses.
I started donating to the developers 2 days after I joined Lemmy and have given over $1k since then. I find the developers to be competent, mature, and reasonable. Similarly to many other contentious topics on this platform, the conversation regarding their perceived or imagined political beliefs is completely lacking in objectivity, logic, and nuance. Y'all actually be gossiping like teenagers about these developers even while taking advantage of the fruits of their unpaid labor. I've seen the evidence of their extremism and it's quite underwhelming when you lay it all out.
And even if I did have major qualms about the devs, I would still argue that it's much harder to justify using any products or services from large corporations like Amazon or Reddit than it is to monetarily support a FOSS project such as Lemmy. Out of everything I've spent money on in my lifetime, Lemmy is easily among the most morally justifiable expenses.
I eventually had to reduce my monthly contribution once sh.itjust.works started accepting donations, because I also feel strongly about supporting my own instance. It's unfortunate that so many lemmings seemingly understand the fact that reddit has become an evil cancer and an alternative is sorely needed, but don't seem to understand that creating such an alternative is a project that requires a massive amount of time and effort. Donating to your instance is great, but without continued development of the underlying software, it's a futile effort. Even if you want to die on the hill of not donating to the big bad Lemmy devs, at least donate to PieFed or something! 2 patrons?!? As an early adopter userbase, we can and should be doing a lot more to support the fediverse monetarily, imo.
Thanks for your donations and your understanding. Its a bit annoying that people ascribe various beliefs to me personally based on nothing more than comments from random lemmy.ml users. But it seems there is nothing I can do to change that.
All you had to do was say sorry, mate
People tend to generalize and assume a lot without actually taking the time to verify their assumptions. It's very frustrating when people demonize admins due to the bad behavior of a handful of users. Trying to win the approval of random goons is a waste of time anyway.
From my perspective you seem like a normal and good person and I think people will eventually come to see that as Lemmy grows up.
I hope youre right :)