this post was submitted on 01 Apr 2025
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[โ€“] taladar@sh.itjust.works 69 points 3 days ago (5 children)

What is wrong with Spain and Portugal in March?

[โ€“] Pirata@lemm.ee 13 points 2 days ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

People are just stupid.

Source: am Portuguese. The veneration for Elongated Muskrat that exists here is insane. Please take me out of here.

[โ€“] mstrk@lemmy.world 38 points 3 days ago (2 children)

Portugal is always behind 10 to 30 years. Give it some time and we might see some fires /s

[โ€“] Sunlightl@fedia.io 17 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Teslas are everywhere here. Considered a status symbol... Every time I mention "Buy EU" to people, family, and friends, they look at me like I'm an alien.

[โ€“] Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Yeah, I've lived in a couple of countries in Europe and my fellow countrymen are the least socially aware of all and easily 30 - 40 years behind Northern Europe and Scandinavia.

I moved back to Portugal some years ago, after 2 decades abroad, and in several things (mobility, environmental awareness, social values) it was like going back in time.

Things are especially bad in everything to do with cars, with people still having the same mindset as back in the 80s, even young people.

[โ€“] mstrk@lemmy.world 1 points 19 hours ago (1 children)

with people still having the same mindset as back in the 80s, even young people.

Letโ€™s set the context to fellows aged between 18 and 35, since thatโ€™s the law in Portugal for defining young people.

WTF is going on? There's so much access to information! I'm not talking about reading books, really. Why are we so behind on everything? I mean, our education isnโ€™t that bad, aside from the overcrowded classrooms in the metropolitan areas. Our universities arenโ€™t too shabby, and the curriculums are good... So whatโ€™s left for us to regain some momentum? I donโ€™t know man, I just want to fly to Australia and stay there, to be honest.

[โ€“] Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 10 hours ago* (last edited 9 hours ago) (1 children)

It's a mix of various behavioural and social learned habits.

Consideration for others is only direct person to person and regulated by social shame: people don't think of "the system" as being "other people", they think of it as something you take advantage of and you're a sucker (otรกrio) if you don't, so when they're not being watched by others or standing out they'll take for themselves that which is of the fuzzy "others":

  • They'll go around the queue if they found a quiet way back or they feel not seen (people in cars generally acts as if they themselves are not seen)
  • They'll swindle the State on tax or benefits if they'll think they can get away with it.
  • They'll park their cars on sidewalks hindering or even blocking pedestrians.
  • They'll keep on crossing the traffic lights just after they turned red even though pedestrians are waiting to cross.
  • They'll not use the car blinking lights when it's merely for the benefit of others (I.e. turning right) but will when it might help them (I.e. turning left across another lane).
  • They'll leave trash on the ground in the middle of a forest.

And more.

Generally people will behave vastly more selfishly if they think they won't stand out but be ashmed to do so when they feel that others are judging them negatively for it (that's what I mean with "regulated by social shame")

This kind of behaviour then translates into very low activism when it comes to things which are "of everybody" such as the Environment.

As for other elements of the lack of prosperity in Portugal, I would say two related to the management culture in the country stand out:

  • A tendency for Nepotism, for example "a cunha". More in general choices about who does what are regulated by "who do I know" and "who do I like", not objective merit and suitability criteria. The result is that generally the best person for the job is NOT the one that gets the job, especially in positions seen as more prestigious (mainly management).
  • Very little natural tendency for being organised: people tend to do just about everything reactively, the whole time, and almost never proactively and this also applies to managers who are generally terrible at preparation and organisation resulting in lots of time wasted from "going after the wrong thing", inappropriate tools for the job, lot of empty periods were somebody is waiting for others and so on. Further, because of the lack of preparation and organisation a lot of otherwise predictable problems that could have easily been avoided if tacked earlier become full-blown fires, so people end up spending lots of time in firefighter mode - fixing problems rather than doing productive activities. All this inefficiency is then compensated with overwork, which brings its own problem since overworked people are tired people and tired people make more mistakes and have an even lower tendency to be proactive. The Portuguese tend to work long hours whilst having low productivity. All this also means that most Portuguese managers are pretty shit at the more advanced levels of management, i.e. Strategy.

And so on.

All these various elements are painfully visible in the behaviour of Portuguese politicians and their management of the country.

Because this stuff are learned behaviours most people that grew up here have them and they naturally feel that "this is how people are" since in their life experience "everybody does this". From my own experience, people can learn to act differently, but when pretty much everybody around them behaves like that, they're not even aware that they're acting in specific ways which are not universal plus some of these things only yield rewards when most people are doing it and being the sole person acting in a certain way just makes one stand out or even be seen as a sucker.

[โ€“] mstrk@lemmy.world 1 points 5 hours ago* (last edited 5 hours ago) (1 children)

All this also means that most Portuguese managers are pretty shit at the more advanced levels of management, i.e. Strategy.

Yes, this is definitely the case here.

Thank you for taking the time to share your point of view. What I get from most of it is that the Portuguese aren't traveling enough and aren't trying to learn different perspectives and ways of doing things, and I tend to agree. I also know from my own social circle that money is almost always the culprit. It's just a snowball effect.

edit: And I blame the "cunha" culture on excess of bureaucracy that happens here.

[โ€“] Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 5 hours ago

Well, for me moving abroad was a massive eye opener, especially since I started by living in The Netherlands and when it comes to the way they do things the Dutch are very different even though they're generally pretty relaxed (though they might not look so since they normally only real open up to people who they know well).

I went in with all those "bad" habits and found out that, no, those were not in fact "the way people do things", they were just the way people tended to do things in my own country.

It probably helped that I moved driven by wanting to "learn different perspectives and ways of doing things" rather than for economic reasons (back in the 90s somebody with an Engineering degree would be just fine in Portugal and be under no economic pressure to emigrate). These were the days when you could be hired from abroad even as a junior software developer and the company would pay your moving and settling costs, so you didn't actually need money to move, just willpower and guts.

IMHO, everybody should live abroad for long enough to feel that you really live there (so at least a year or two), if only for the perspective and broader life experience it brings.

[โ€“] comrade_twisty@feddit.org 12 points 3 days ago (1 children)

But even Eastern Europe got the note this time, I donโ€™t know where to put Portugal on the map now at all.

The relationship of the average Portuguese with cars is still just as weirdly fucked up as it was 40 years ago.

[โ€“] unexposedhazard@discuss.tchncs.de 11 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

I think spain kinda went all in on solar, maybe those things are connected. Or the total number of sales is so low in spain, that the percentage change doesnt represent a large absolute number. Quarter wise tesla is still down in spain tho.

[โ€“] Chiarottide@lemmy.world 3 points 2 days ago

Would be nice to see the growth compared to other electric cars. The current administration in going all in on renewables and incentives, electric cars are on the rise in general and tesla might be missing out

[โ€“] kemsat@lemmy.world -4 points 2 days ago (3 children)

Spain sided with the fascists during WW2, didnโ€™t they?

[โ€“] Pirata@lemm.ee 3 points 1 day ago

No, we were neutral.

[โ€“] Maalus@lemmy.world 3 points 2 days ago (1 children)
[โ€“] easily3667@lemmus.org 1 points 1 day ago

Busy being fascist in a corner?

[โ€“] inlandempire@jlai.lu 4 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Today's Spain is completely different than Franco's Spain though

[โ€“] kemsat@lemmy.world 6 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Trumpโ€™s America kinda proves that people can lay dormant with their ideologies for decades, tho

[โ€“] MrMakabar@slrpnk.net 1 points 1 day ago

Spains current government is argueably the most progressive in Europe right now. Shorter work week to 37.5h for example.

[โ€“] matelt@feddit.uk 24 points 3 days ago

Music to my ears but come on hermanos & irmรฃos a little more effort please

[โ€“] Reverendender@sh.itjust.works 9 points 3 days ago (1 children)
[โ€“] tetris11@feddit.uk 1 points 2 days ago (2 children)

This is excellent - where is this from?

Goodfellas (1990), directed by Martin Scorsese.

[โ€“] uienia@lemmy.world 4 points 2 days ago

Go watch Goodfellas right now.

[โ€“] 20cello@lemmy.world 5 points 2 days ago (3 children)

Wondering why italy isn't there

[โ€“] Chiarottide@lemmy.world 10 points 2 days ago

The article has the full picture, not sure why it got cropped out. As an Italian, I would have preferred we had been left out...

[โ€“] easily3667@lemmus.org 1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

To be fair, Tesla is still safer to drive on average than an Italian car.

I kid, I kid, Italian cars don't work long enough to catch fire.

They already have enough terrible cars with fiat leading the pack.

[โ€“] BossPaint@lemmy.world 3 points 3 days ago

How long will it takes before it has a lasting impact?

[โ€“] NewDay@feddit.org 0 points 2 days ago (2 children)

The most important market is not there. I do not understand why.

[โ€“] Maalus@lemmy.world 8 points 2 days ago

Yeah I'm sick of people forgetting about Poland too

[โ€“] Gladaed@feddit.org 2 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

In Germany they cannon balled their numbers. Like -76%

Would probably kill the legibility.