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I don't understand why everyone wants to jump ship to a whole new browser, when the governance of a browser is the real issue to solve regardless of which browser is supported. A good stewardship model has to be established by people of integrity, technical skill, and funding. From there forking making a hard fork of Firefox is way cheaper and easier than trying to invest in one that's not even finished.
Having more than two browser engines out there would be nice for standardization reasons.
There are more than two browser engines. But it's important to emphasize supporting Firefox's engine because we're already at threat of there being only one dominant engine.
Because they want to. What other reason would one need?
Okay, you do you. But it still doesn't make sense to try to rally everyone else behind a whole new unfinished browser, when an otherwise very good one just needs new leadership.
i do not control mozilla leadership or their mishandling my data. the most influence i can exert as an individual is by not being a willing participant to their mischief. i'll be happy to come back if the leadership changes and i get some guarantees.
Absolutely untrue. Firefox is entirely open-source. Forks of it already exist. The only thing that's needed is for people who are willing and capable, to create a more dedicated stewardship model and the rest of us to get behind the hard fork they release. This is exactly the kind of thing software freedom is meant to allow us to do.
It is a debatable point which would be easier:
1 - get Ladybird to the point it is competitive
2 - establish a viable and popular alternative dev and governance infrastructure capable of stewarding and evolving Firefox
The fact that people want to try option one is far from crazy.
The problem with your scenario is that problem 1 is problem 1 and 2 for Ladybird, whereas Firefox is already a mature code base.
Hey it could be worse. It could be the completely and utterly worthless MIT license.
The only difference is that BSD defends a bit more the owner rights. Either of them defends the software or its users.
Well how is MIT more worse than BSD? Both allows prorpietary right?
with mandatory male pronouns for users in the documentation.
(and no politics allowed!)
note
this issue was resolved eventually by another dev; ~~afaik~~ the lead dev ~~stopped commenting on it after he~~ closed a PR and said people who wanted to remove the docs' implied assumption of users' maleness were "advertising personal politics".
edit: ok, i went and checked, here are the details:
https://github.com/SerenityOS/serenity/pull/6814 is the first PR he closed in 2021 saying "This project is not an appropriate arena to advertise your personal politics."
https://github.com/SerenityOS/serenity/pull/24648 is the PR where it was eventually fixed, after it was publicized in july 2024
here https://xcancel.com/awesomekling/status/1808294414101467564 the day after the fix was merged, he sort-of almost apologized, while also doubling-down on his defense of his decision to reject the first PR 🤡
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ladybird_(web_browser) was later spun out of SerenityOS in to its own project
can I get some context for this, what is the reference to? I stopped caring about new browsers and now just use Firefox 🤷♀️
As long as we're filling out our fantasy browser brackets, I'm hoping that the Servo engine and browser/s can become viable. Servo was started at Mozilla as a web rendering engine only, before they laid off the whole team and the Linux Foundation took over the project. Basically revived from the dead in 2023, the current project is working on an engine and a demonstration browser that uses it. It's years away from being a usable replacement for current browsers and the engine is certainly the main project. A separate browser which employs Servo as its engine is a more likely future than an actual Servo browser.
Still, you can download a demo build of the official browser from the web site. Currently, it's only usable for very simple web sites. Even Lemmy/Mbin display is a little broken, and I think of those as fairly basic. YouTube is out of the question. One of the sites that's been used to demonstrate its capability to render web pages is the web site for Space Jam (1996) if that gives you any idea of its current state.
Not only C++ but also Swift, which just feels strange
Why build a new browser in C++ when safer and more modern languages are available?
Ladybird started as a component of the SerenityOS hobby project, which only allows C++. The choice of language was not so much a technical decision, but more one of personal convenience. Andreas was most comfortable with C++ when creating SerenityOS, and now we have almost half a million lines of modern C++ to maintain.
However, now that Ladybird has forked and become its own independent project, all constraints previously imposed by SerenityOS are no longer in effect.
We have evaluated a number of alternatives, and will begin incremental adoption of Swift as a successor language, once Swift version 6 is released.
c++ is adding memory safety features… it’s still modern and frequently updated
It's not the C++ that I find strange hah
Swift is a pretty fully fledged systems language at this point ... however, it's far from tried and tested for use cases like this and cross platform support is still garbage, so still a pretty questionable choice.
Should've written it in python, smh
This is such a non-issue
That's not controlled by Google...
It is also important to note that the license is still foss and GPL compatible. In the future they could made it GPL.
Let’s see how ladybird writes docs in the future. Will they assume the user is a man and shut down any corrections for being political?
I'm never going to be one to dog on something before I try it. If it's good and can offer the same or better experience as Firefox then sign me up. The biggest sticking point for me, though, is potentially losing Firefox's massive add-in library. I really like my uBlock Origin and Restore YouTube Dislike and my VPN extension and Metamask and all the other crap I've got there.
as long as the new browser supports webextensions its fine
I’m OOTL. Are these actual issues people have with the project?
C++ might not be as memory-safe as Rust, but let’s not pretend a Rust code base wouldn’t be riddled with raw pointers.
BSD tells me the team probably wants Ladybird to become not just a standalone browser but also a new competing base for others to build a browser on top of – a Chromium competitor. Even though BSD wouldn’t force downstream projects to contribute back upstream, they probably would, since that’s far less resource-intensive than maintaining a fork. (Source: me, who works on proprietary software, can’t use GPL stuff, but contributes back to my open-source dependencies.)
