this post was submitted on 04 Aug 2023
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Programming

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Why are there so many programming languages? And why are there still being so many made? I would think you would try to perfect what you have instead of making new ones all the time. I understand you need new languages sometimes like quantumcomputing or some newer tech like that. But for pc you would think there would be some kind of universal language. I'm learning java btw. I like programming languages. But was just wondering.

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[–] unquietwiki@programming.dev 5 points 1 year ago

If any of you happen to still be on Reddit, I actually maintain a "catalog" of these newer languages, as they come across my radar. One of my more recent finds is MiniScript, which the author of that has been using to port a fair amount of classic BASIC games from that GitHub archive I posted about recently. I got sucked into Nim, which seems like a good synthesis of Python, Javascript, and C++; c/nim exists for anyone interested.

[–] icesentry@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago

Aside from all the pragmatic reasons that were already listed, it's also just fun to write all the parts required to make a programming language.

[–] gnus_migrate@programming.dev 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

There can be a universal language in theory, but it's borderline impossible to achieve. Every domain has a different set of problems that it needs to solve, and language design involves tradeoffs that may make sense for one domain but not another. That's why I think language wars are silly, without context it's impossible to say which language is "better", because you could have different answers depending on what you're trying to do.

In the end you shouldn't be too concerned with it. There are lots of languages, but all of them fall under two or three paradigms where if you learn one language from that paradigm, your skills are mostly transferable.

[–] demesisx@infosec.pub 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It has been achieved by many different projects: The K framework is probably the closest to a universal language.

There’s also the possibility of formally defining code as an Agda spec which also allows that code to be converted to any other language without adding new bugs.

Then, you have category theory which is literally a universal language that describes ALL processes in a program.

Then you also have lambda calculus which does the same thing.

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[–] toikpi@feddit.uk 5 points 1 year ago

Without new programming languages we would still be using FORTRAN, AGOL and LISP.

https://fortran-lang.org/learn/quickstart/hello_world/

https://lisp-lang.org/learn/first-steps

https://www.computer.org/publications/tech-news/insider-membership-news/timeline-of-programming-languages

One reason why new languages are developed is the creation of a "Domain-specific language" or DSL. See Wikipedia for more information.

Programming languages are tools you pick the one for the job, there are situations where Java's garbage collection could be a problem so it would not the right tool to use.

[–] beeng@discuss.tchncs.de 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (5 children)

Like human languages, you get different types of expressiveness in different ways. If you know multiple languages whether is python or Java, or English and French / Spanish / German, you'll see that there are positives and negatives to each language.

Lots of people want to design the best combination of them all, using the newest tools and newest tech to create something as useful as possible.

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[–] AnUnusualRelic@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

That's why everyone actually codes in lisp.

[–] dgendreau@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

Not enough parentheses in your reply.

[–] complacent_jerboa@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

What might compel someone to make their own language? Typically, it's because they've already used some languages, they have some criticisms of it, and they want to make something better. Now, for languages that are open source and accept community contributions, that is an option. However, keep in mind that each language already has its own core maintainer(s), with their own vision, as well as a whole host of other people who would have to be convinced that your idea (whatever improvements you want to make) are a good fit for that language. Some changes can be quite drastic — especially if you want to improve one language by bringing in insights you've gained from another. So sometimes (not often, but sometimes), people say "fuck it, I'm making my own language, with blackjack and hookers".

The thing about software is, it's really easy to play around with. You don't need a workshop or parts or anything — you just need your computer. As a result, you have lots of people tinkering with stuff like making their own programming language, whether just for fun or more tangible reasons.

And we've been in this cycle of innovation for decades, and it's how we've gone from punch cards to assembly to C, Python, and all the rest.

But surely we don't need any more innovation? Like, why can't we all just use one language for everything?

Well, it's true that nowadays we have a whole bunch of general-purpose, multi-paradigm languages. The analogy people like to make is "different tools in your toolbox". But, to clarify, it's not that some of them are hammers and others are screwdrivers; they're all the same kind of tool ("programming language"), so really it's more like different screwdrivers, of varying sizes, with differently shaped bits at the end.

With screwdrivers it's clear why you might need one with this shape or the other: Otherwise it won't match the screw. With languages it's a little more subtle. You see, when you design a language (or almost anything else, ever), you inevitably make a series of tradeoffs. Is the language compiled or interpreted? Does it have a garbage collector? Does it have a strict type system? How does it do async? Does it support higher-order functions? There's a million questions, and you're going to get a different combination of answers for each language you look at. And that's before you evaluate other (potentially very important) things, like "is this language fast enough for my use case?", or "I need a library for such-and-such, has someone made that in this language?", or "does the language have a solid enough community that I can reliably search the answers to my questions?".

Technically, any of the major languages — Java, Python, C, C++, C#, Javascript, Go, Rust, etc etc — can be used as a one-size-fits-all, universal programming language. There's actually a joke "law" that goes "anything that can be written in Javascript, will eventually be written in Javascript". But they each have their own unique combination of design decisions, so in practice different ones will be easier to use for this kind of project or that (one major factor is third-party libraries, like python's numpy or pandas, that may not have equivalents in other languages). There are also situations where, for a given platform, you have to use that language. For example, for Microsoft's .NET stuff, I don't think you can substitute C# for something like C++ (someone correct me if I'm wrong please). Or, if you're working on the Linux kernel, you're pretty much just using C (I think they were considering adopting Rust, but idk if that's still going on). And, of course, the dominant programming language for anything on the internet is Javascript (although WebAssembly has made huge strides in roughly the past decade, so you can actually use other languages as long as they can compile to WebAssembly).

Finally, to wrap up this already way-too-long comment: a lot of these languages are very similar to one another. They're all procedural, heavily inspired by C, and for the most part they're either compiled and statically typed, or they're interpreted and dynamically typed. There are also a whole bunch of other languages, called functional languages, that are designed based on entirely different principles (the principles aren't harder to learn than what you're having to learn for Java, they're just different). But if you are looking for a universal programming language, I think the closest you're going to get is either C, C++, Python, or Javascript. In addition to Java, I would strongly recommend you learn C and Python (C has a bit more of a learning curve, but it teaches you a lot about memory management, which is a lesson you'll carry with you to any other language).

[–] SteleTrovilo@beehaw.org 3 points 1 year ago

People need and want various levels of abstraction, type system control, and even just syntaxes. In these cases, it's easier to switch languages - or make one - than to implement a solution in a language that would fight against your needs.

[–] TCB13@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (4 children)

Because people don't want to admit that JavaScript will be the only programming language in the future and that resistance is futile.

[–] david@feddit.uk 5 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Yeah but javascript has 473 popular frameworks and counting, and the churn is immense. Your codebase becomes out of date before you've finished writing it.

And the debugging?! I'll try to finish writing this paragraph despite the uncontrollable twitching. Let's just say that javascript is the kind of language that looks at your car with a missing left front wheel and says "let's go", while your IDE whispers "Yes, but maybe just don't turn right. Certainly don't turn right fast, unless you want to of course."

[–] alokir@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

Yeah but javascript has 473 popular frameworks and counting, and the churn is immense. Your codebase becomes out of date before you've finished writing it.

That's not really the case anymore, it was back at around 2015 for a few years when nodejs blew up and we realized that JS is capable of much more than we initially thought.

We threw a thousand different things to the wall and a few frameworks stuck. Today the ecosystem is pretty stable, especially of you choose a popular framework like React or Angular.

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[–] TheCee@programming.dev 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

people don’t want to admin

Exactly right.

[–] TCB13@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

Ahaha fair point :D

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[–] drzoidberg@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

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