this post was submitted on 30 Dec 2024
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Late Stage Capitalism

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[–] TheEighthDoctor@lemmy.world 5 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Capitalism didn't invent slaves lol

[–] K1nsey6@lemmy.world 8 points 6 days ago (1 children)

No, but they created entire industries based on the sale if humans

[–] TheEighthDoctor@lemmy.world -4 points 6 days ago

Civilization is a product of slavery and it started in mesopotamia

[–] gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.de 78 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (2 children)

Also gotta remember about the Irish Potato Famine where the English just literally stood by and said "well yeah that's just how it is" due to "free market" reasons. (In fact, they made everything worse by demanding that Ireland continue to export wheat)

The Irish Potato Famine killed approximately 1 million people due to "free market above all" ideology.

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 31 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

Don't forget the, "no, you can't grow what you used to eat, you have to grow potatoes" part.

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[–] Realitaetsverlust@lemmy.zip 59 points 1 week ago (11 children)

Ye the world was a peaceful place before capitalism, there were no wars, no slaves and no ...

checks history books

Oh no

Oh no no no no

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[–] Rooty@lemmy.world 55 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (17 children)

Reducing widespread human rights abuses in the Soviet Union to "one famine" shows a heady mixture of deliberate ignorance with hubris that only a western university educated leftist can posess.

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[–] Eatspancakes84@lemmy.world 47 points 1 week ago (6 children)

Not to undermine the argument, but capitalism did not start in 16th century England.

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[–] nexguy@lemmy.world 44 points 1 week ago (1 children)

It's a good thing there were no genocides, slave grades, and constant wars before capitalism. Pheww

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[–] hobovision@lemm.ee 41 points 1 week ago (2 children)

There are so many good arguments against capitalism, why make such a terrible one full of holes, lies, and fallacies?

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[–] moody@lemmings.world 37 points 1 week ago (19 children)

Surely Rome wasn't a warmongering, genocidal, capitalist-colonialist society with the rich elite hoarding untold wealth and trading in slaves 1500 years earlier, right?

[–] TempermentalAnomaly@lemmy.world 36 points 1 week ago (17 children)

The Roman mode of production wasn't capitalist exploitation of wage earners who sold their labor, but through their exploration of slaves in an agregarian system. There's some arguments to be made that capitalist systems start as early as 12th century Italy, but it becomes dominant in 1600s England and is able to radically transform that society.

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[–] Thrashy@lemmy.world 26 points 1 week ago

Somebody let Spain know they're off the hook for all the colonizing, slavery and genocide since they hadn't invented capitalism yet!

[–] prunerye@slrpnk.net 24 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

16th century England wasn't even capitalist. It was mercantilist-- strong central control over a zero-sum economic system focusing primarily on lopsided international trade as the means of building wealth.

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[–] allo@sh.itjust.works 20 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Not to undermine the argument, but plenty of other cultures without capitalism were horrific and did ridiculous wars for basically all of history.

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[–] DarkCloud@lemmy.world 17 points 1 week ago (6 children)

A famine that wasn't caused by the ideology directly, but by picking the wrong guy to run agriculture. It wasn't communism that caused the famine, it was Trofim Lysenko's unscientific ideology; Lysenkoism.

...plus Authoritarian Communism shouldn't count, amd the death tolls of Capitalism, Colonialism, and The Catholic Church have all been higher in total.

[–] rockerface@lemm.ee 21 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Both authoritarian and capitalist systems lead to massive disparities and overall low quality of life for majority of people. It is where the seemingly opposite ideologies converge on the one thing they do best: concentrate power in the hands of few.

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[–] KillingTimeItself@lemmy.dbzer0.com 17 points 1 week ago (7 children)

guys, i think human society is just innately evil.

Like i hate to break it to you, but conquest and war has existed for a long ass fucking time.

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[–] Maggoty@lemmy.world 15 points 1 week ago (6 children)

Kings sending Conquistadors was not capitalism. Or if it was then the entire middle ages was also Capitalism. Capitalism did plenty of bad shit without covering for the authoritarian sanctioned missions of the 1500s.

[–] Eddbopkins@lemmy.world 22 points 1 week ago (8 children)

Guess you never heard of the east India company.

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[–] LengAwaits@lemmy.world 15 points 1 week ago (10 children)

“During the cold war, the anticommunist ideological framework could transform any data about existing communist societies into hostile evidence. If the Soviets refused to negotiate a point, they were intransigent and belligerent; if they appeared willing to make concessions, this was but a skillful ploy to put us off our guard. By opposing arms limitations, they would have demonstrated their aggressive intent; but when in fact they supported most armament treaties, it was because they were mendacious and manipulative. If the churches in the USSR were empty, this demonstrated that religion was suppressed; but if the churches were full, this meant the people were rejecting the regime's atheistic ideology. If the workers went on strike (as happened on infrequent occasions), this was evidence of their alienation from the collectivist system; if they didn't go on strike, this was because they were intimidated and lacked freedom. A scarcity of consumer goods demonstrated the failure of the economic system; an improvement in consumer supplies meant only that the leaders were attempting to placate a restive population and so maintain a firmer hold over them.

If communists in the United States played an important role struggling for the rights of workers, the poor, African-Americans, women, and others, this was only their guileful way of gathering support among disfranchised groups and gaining power for themselves. How one gained power by fighting for the rights of powerless groups was never explained. What we are dealing with is a nonfalsifiable orthodoxy, so assiduously marketed by the ruling interests that it affected people across the entire political spectrum.”

― Michael Parenti, Blackshirts and Reds: Rational Fascism and the Overthrow of Communism


Additionally, check out Willam Blum's "Killing Hope" (pdf link), and/or "America's Deadliest Export", by same (pdf link).

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