For those that have had enough of the Elon Musk worship online.
No flaming, baiting, etc. This community is intended for those opposed to the influx of Elon Musk-related advertising online. Coming here to defend Musk or his companies will not get you banned, but it likely will result in downvotes. Please use the reporting feature if you see a rule violation.
Opinions from all sides of the political spectrum are welcome here. However, we kindly ask that off-topic political discussion be kept to a minimum, so as to focus on the goal of this sub. This community is minimally moderated, so discussion and the power of upvotes/downvotes are allowed, provided lemmy.world rules are not broken.
Post links to instances of obvious Elon Musk fanboy brigading in default subreddits, lemmy/kbin communities/instances, astroturfing from Tesla/SpaceX/etc., or any articles critical of Musk, his ideas, unrealistic promises and timelines, or the working conditions at his companies.
Tesla-specific discussion can be posted here as well as our sister community /c/RealTesla.
So I'll bite ....let's say he's right and they're "not" homeless they're suffering from mental illness, drug addiction or a combination of both WHILE being homess.
Wouldn't it make more sense to actually fucking help those in need especially now we know they're struggling with homeless AND other incapacitating issues.
Society should be judged on how they treat the weak, struggling members of society. They are not a burden but real people hurting, and we are all closer to homeless than we think.
There is also a cynical neoliberal argument that one could make. By helping those homeless people, they are reintroduced to the economy. They will produce value, consume products, and not dedicate on the sidewalk. In other words it's a good investment.
So if I'm being honest, after reading Shock Doctrine by Naomi Klein, I see absolutely no need to ever embrace anything from the Chicago School of Economics or any bullshit Neoliberal ideology, it only serves to transfer wealth to private hands.
Even when my objective and a Neoliberal objective inadvertently line up, they are not the good guys.
I agree with you all the way. However, this is a very good talking point if you're dealing with someone who doesn't care about human decency or empathy
Then that person shouldn't be allowed to make any decisions regarding other people
And yet people like that do. Every single day. People like that are the dominant political force in this country.
I hate that I'd even have to entertain that as a reason, or spew it at those who just won't care about any other argument.
Yeah it gives me the ick too. But it's a very good talking point to someone who cares more about shareholder value than human life.
Yeah, I'm addicted.
Addicted to the good old outdoors.
When it comes to the homeless, some are forced into that situation (see: tent cities coming up around metros during COVID, 2020-2023 ish, some are ongoing), while others, mostly long term homeless, are either there because of mental illness or drugs, or stay there because of mental issues/drugs.
It can be both cause and effect.
Dehumanizing the homeless as all drug addicts and mentally ill people is unnecessarily cruel. A lot of them simply need help and support, whether that support is stable and affordable (cheap/free) housing, and food banks, or more broad social services like drug rehab, and mental health assistance.
Some mental health conditions are difficult to treat, like those with paranoid schizophrenia, who are constantly fighting with voices telling them that any medication to alleviate the symptoms is poison or something like that. This is just one example of many; but the majority of mental health conditions are very easily treatable.
However, with the US healthcare system in such a wretched condition as it is, though it has improved somewhat, it is not built for the people who need the most help, or need help more significantly or urgently, such as those who are homeless.
IMO, the watermark of how "good" a society is, in no small part, is demonstrated by how we regard and "deal with" homelessness. Needless to say, America ranks pretty low on that list.
Compared to something like the National defense budget, making even the smallest move towards helping the homeless would be a massive help, for a relatively small cost. In no small part because everyone would ask where the money is coming from.
Where does any money come from? When a society issues bonds for more currency from the "global banks", and gets, say $100M to spend, then in a year, they owe $103M on that debt, but only have $100M in total currency, what then? This "debt" will never be paid. Also, for an international superpower, who do they owe this money to? Who are you in debt to?
The Fiat money system is a sham and the currency has no value at all. It's simply the worthless material we use as a middle man for the barter system. I trade my effort/labor for this worthless paper, and this worthless paper grants me the ability to feed and house myself. Rather than my labor being paid for in... I dunno, coal? Wheat? Coffee beans? Then me having to trade that for something the grocer wants, and something my landlord wants. It's stupid.
So-called genius can't fathom that in many cases the mental illness and drug addiction came from the homelessness.
I have anxiety and likely some deep seated depression that would rise up with a vengeance if I didn't have a warm home and access to food. I also love drinking wine, and while I do have access to said home and fridge, this wine hobby is cute and socially acceptable.
Make me homeless and I'd very much represent a mentally ill substance abusing human like Elmo is describing there. They're not 'them'; they're just us in a different reality.
If Elon suddenly became "homeless" he would have a sign begging for ketamine & screaming "put I never went to therapy on my tombstone".
Even if that is true, does it somehow invalidate the fact that they are also homeless?! Are they less deserving to be out of the elements because they have an addiction?
That's what I find so disgusting about this statement. It's just an excuse and doesn't address anything at all.
Using his own "argument", it would seem to me that a path to less addiction and violence would involve having a place to live and sleep.
Lots of people feel this way about homelessness and addiction. It's very easy to dehumanized people. My cousin interrupted me, when I said something about it, and told me "when you have people shooting up outside your house, then you can complain". As if i couldnt have an opinion until i experience the issue that is homelessness, the war on drugs, and our failure to address mental health issues in this country with my very own eyes. She's a bit snooty, and she doesn't even realize it.
Nevermind that once you become homeless, it becomes much harder to dig yourself out of that hole (probably by design).
It’s such a self-centered point of view. They can’t even conceive of themselves ever being in a similar situation so they assume the person inconveniencing them must be fully to blame for their homelessness. Then they can ignore those degenerates without feeling guilty about it.
Yeah wonder what could drive someone to addiction and desperation? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm couldn't be not having a stable food supply and a place to live?
They are drug addicts and mentally ill because usa has no safety nets for such people
We were supposed to take care of these people after de-institutionalization. We didn't.
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/asylums/special/excerpt.html
We broke the promise and now it is their fault. What a bizarre world we live in.
Republican playbook. Cheat, be an asshole and don't ever care for anyone else than yourself. Classy and on Brand
I cannot explain how disgustingly evil it is to witness the suffering of individuals, whether due to substance abuse, illness, or homelessness, and dismiss it as untruthful.
The numbers to fix homelessness may be controversial, with some sites saying it was 20 billion in 2010 and that's just to provide vouchers for a year, and some fact checking sites saying it can cost $60 billion in a year.
The primary concern is the actions of a South African billionaire, whose net worth is $350 billion. Instead of recognizing the complexities of a significant social issue, he appears to dehumanize those affected and assigns blame, rather than offering assistance.
What a fucking evil take.
Aside from the fact that having a safe place to live alone helps both mental illness and substance abuse in most individuals, a major cause of homelessness is domestic abuse and being disowned. Having a safe place to live will absolutely help the over a third of domestic abuse victims who become homeless, and would help those who cannot afford to get away from their abusers due to lack of ability to find a safe haven.
Home the homeless, then we can start working on the harder parts.
A huge portion of the homeless population are orphans who age out of the system.
There's full time employees that are homeless. Go out to a bridge, find a homeless person, ask how many homeless people they know that are working 40hrs a week. An alarming number. Looking forward to the violent end to elon musk. His violent games, have very violent ends.
The word “homeless” (without a home) literally as descriptive and neutral as possible. Elon Musk: Propaganda
I was homeless for 6 years because billionaires fucked with America's housing market. I'm not even American.
I was 15 years old when that happened. My teenage years got robbed by billionaires.
The guy who is so addicted with twitter engagement boostingbhis ego he bought it for himself just to go full fascist. Is calling homeless people addicts lol.
Is this older or does his wealth just fluctuate +-100 billion as stocks fluctuate? Recently read he was at 450 billion.
What's crazy is losing or gaining 100 billion doesn't really affect him, he's still the richest person in the world and it wouldn't change his life any.
Funny. So less public health would do what exactly to benefit the homeless/insane?
Ketamine pot, calling the mentally ill kettle black.
I wonder if they use drugs to cope with the mental illness they got from being forced to live on the streets?
Naw, that's pseudoscience. We all know that it's proven that poverty is a character trait that you actively choose. Not rich? Obviously you don't want it hard enough. /s
Funny because elon is a drug addict who's showing he has some affective disorder because his daddy didn't love him and is a malignant narcissist.