this post was submitted on 22 Dec 2024
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Lefty Memes

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An international (English speaking) socialist Lemmy community free of the "ML" influence of instances like lemmy.ml and lemmygrad. This is a place for undogmatic shitposting and memes from a progressive, anti-capitalist and truly anti-imperialist perspective, regardless of specific ideology.

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[–] spujb@lemmy.cafe 42 points 15 hours ago* (last edited 14 hours ago)

fnuny meme but if you read the article i don’t think calling them “centrist” is defensible:

Mr. Aboutboul is a founding member of Students for Standing Together, a new student group at U.C.L.A. that aims to unite Israelis and Palestinians to call for a cease-fire in Gaza.

so these “centrists” are doing statistically better than your representatives. the comments here talking about “only committing a half genocide” are just doing bad faith echo chamber discourse, which i don’t find the be productive.

At Columbia University, Aharon Dardik, an Israeli American student, formed a group called CU Jews for Ceasefire after finding that his viewpoint wasn’t fully reflected in the main pro-Palestinian student movement. He is a pacifist who spent his teen years with his family in the West Bank but who ultimately refused to serve in the army in Israel. He believes in working with Israelis and Palestinians toward collective liberation and a world not divided by ethnonationalist allegiances.

Dr. Waxman also became a target of right-wing pro-Israel groups, including after he wrote on social media that he supported the International Criminal Court’s request for an arrest warrant for Israel’s prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, a position he said he took as a supporter of international law.

no hate to OP but let’s laugh loudly at the ones who deserve to be scoffed and mocked, not the people who are actively supporting Palestinian emancipation. i’m sure there’s stuff to be criticized in these folks but if there is, find it and call it the fuck out specifically instead of hand-waving “centrist”—especially when doing so just deplatforms the underrepresented Jewish Anti-Zionist population.

(honestly let’s laugh at whoever wrote and approved that headline, it does no service here.)

[–] TankovayaDiviziya@lemmy.world 13 points 15 hours ago* (last edited 15 hours ago) (4 children)

The most middle of the road opinion on Israel-Palestine issue is the two state solution. It worked on Northern Ireland with the Good Friday Agreement and it should work between Israel and Palestine. Many scholars from both sides also want to use NI peace deal as the blueprint. Compromise is the key just like with Protestants and Catholics did in Northern Ireland.

The problem is, of course radicals from both Palestine and Israel do not want this because-- well-- they're radical.

[–] geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml 1 points 18 minutes ago* (last edited 12 minutes ago)

This is false. Only Israel does not want a two state solution. Even Hamas accepted it in 2017.

This is what people mean with enlightened centrism. There are no two sides preventing peace. There is only Israel preventing peace.

[–] AbsoluteChicagoDog@lemm.ee 1 points 5 hours ago (1 children)

Yeah those radical Palestinians, not wanting half their home cut off for colonizers.

[–] DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social 0 points 21 minutes ago

When you're born in a country you're only a colonizer if you start conquering more territory.

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[–] ininewcrow@lemmy.ca 52 points 22 hours ago (5 children)

“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented” is a quote by Elie Wiesel from his 1986 Nobel Peace Prize acceptance speech.

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[–] underwire212@lemm.ee 7 points 17 hours ago

We must only kill half the Palestinians.

[–] ComradeMiao@lemmy.dbzer0.com 32 points 1 day ago (1 children)

At my university the police literally threaten anyone who tries to be pro Palestine… every Jewish group is pro zionist

[–] kreskin@lemmy.world 3 points 1 hour ago

The US government is violently supressing free speech where it relates to Israel, and pretending its because of a threat to all Jews. Heres whats in that bill: https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/6090/text SEC. 4. DEFINITIONS.

For purposes of this Act, the term “definition of antisemitism”—

(1) means the definition of antisemitism adopted on May 26, 2016, by the IHRA, of which the United States is a member, which definition has been adopted by the Department of State; and

(2) includes the “[c]ontemporary examples of antisemitism” identified in the IHRA definition.

Whats in the IHRA definition?
This definition for what antisemitism is:

  • Calling for, aiding, or justifying the killing or harming of Jews in the name of a radical ideology or an extremist view of religion.
  • Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g., by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavor.
  • Drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis.
  • Holding Jews collectively responsible for actions of the state of Israel.

It attached itself to the civil rights bill of 1964. So it can take action against anything related to the federal government, like schools, federal contracts, etc, but it does not apply to you and me as private citizens (yet). I can and will say all day that Israel is a genocider, is a violent theocratic racist state, should not have been granted statehodd by the UN, and is as bad as the Nazis.

[–] Borger@lemmy.blahaj.zone 99 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

Yep. Also calling it the“Israel-Hamas war” is propaganda. Makes it sound like the only people dying in Palestine are Hamas soldiers, which is obviously nowhere near the truth.

Centrists are literally just anti-opinion and spineless.

Free Palestine.

[–] assassinatedbyCIA@lemmy.world 18 points 19 hours ago (1 children)

Centrist just support the status quo. So if the status quo is genocide then they just support genocide.

[–] kreskin@lemmy.world 1 points 1 hour ago

Thats and worse. They do what they are paid to do. DNC centrists heard from their consultants that whoever had the most money tended to win elections, so they sold out in every way they could. Theyve almost abandoned the idea of having a party platform at all. Youd think that means we could just gofundme some government action, but you have to gofundme an amount that beats the corporate donaters' preference. Good luck with that. Centrist will do anything to simply win, which leads directly to oligarchy.

[–] OutlierBlue@lemmy.ca 64 points 1 day ago (1 children)

When one side is committing genocide and the other side wants no genocide, you don't pick the middle and support half-genocide.

[–] ReCursing@lemmings.world 24 points 1 day ago (17 children)

More accurate would be "Committing genocide" and "Wants to commit genocide but doesn't have the guns", with the majority of the actual population on both sides (rather than the politicians and emboldened extremists) just wanting to not be genocided. Personally I'm picking the "chuck the politicians in a hole and let the people live" option. No idea what the ideal solution looks like but I feel like getting the fascists and religious extremists on both sides out of the equation would be a good starting point

[–] theonlytruescotsman@sh.itjust.works 6 points 19 hours ago (1 children)

Hamas wouldn't exist if Israel didn't commit genocide. You can't win a war on terror. You can stop "terrorists" without hurting a single person though.

[–] ReCursing@lemmings.world 0 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

Hamas would not exist if Israel didn't, it's true, but the opposition to Israel did not originally come from genocide, Israel was attacked almost immediately upon its foundation. Whether putting there was a good idea or not is debatable (well okay it was an awful idea, but one of the other places they considered was Yugoslavia, which I'm sure would have been perfectly safe!) but Hamas and their ilk did not appear in response to Israel committing genocide

[–] kreskin@lemmy.world 0 points 1 hour ago* (last edited 1 hour ago) (1 children)

Israel was attacked almost immediately upon its foundation

It was attacked for a reason. Pretending otherwise is dishonest. The Nakba led to the attacks.

"The Nakba, Arabic for “catastrophe,” refers to the 700,000 Palestinians who fled or were driven out of what today is Israel before and during the war surrounding its creation in 1948."

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/palestinians-mark-the-nakba-the-original-catastrophe-of-mass-expulsion

Do you see the "before" in that quote? The Nakba was the cause of the attacks.

Beyond that israel was attacking the british and muslims in the area before israel became a nation-state again. This isnt the first israeli genocide in that area in service of building a new kingdom either. Its the third or fourth, depending how you count ethnic mass murders sprees of innocents as genocides. And Zealot/Zionist (Jewish far right splinter groups) terrorism has been ongoing since early Roman times at least.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish%E2%80%93Roman_wars

For those reasons alone, Israel should not have been granted statehood by the UN. Maybe the UN. thought giving them the state would settle the issue and the murders would stop, but the desire for ever more land shows no signs of stopping, and knows no shame or humanity.

[–] ReCursing@lemmings.world 1 points 36 minutes ago

You act like I'm defending israel. I'm not. I'm just refusing to0 defend Hamas either.

[–] ILikeBoobies@lemmy.ca 7 points 21 hours ago

Yes, an Israeli government that recognizes Palestinians as people is the first step then hoping the olive branch extends to the other side

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[–] ComradeMiao@lemmy.dbzer0.com 13 points 1 day ago

Centrist opinions be like Six million Western European Jews were killed in the holocaust so millions of Eastern European and American Jews, who were supported by the Nazi’s, deserve to kill any middle easterner that stands against the formation of their own imperialist state

[–] lvxferre@mander.xyz 26 points 1 day ago

What I've seen plenty of those alleged "centrists" doing is the opposite - removing the nuance. For example, conflating the four sides (Israelis, Palestinians, State of Israel, Hamas) into two.

[–] mhague@lemmy.world 28 points 1 day ago (2 children)

How is "Everyone needs to end the violence and seek an ideal solution for everyone involved." a nuanced position? That's what I expect every person to believe when they first start thinking of Israel and Palestine.

[–] NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 25 points 1 day ago (7 children)

How is "Everyone needs to end the violence and seek an ideal solution for everyone involved." a nuanced position?

It's not nuanced, just naive. You'll never get Israel as it currently exists to willingly acknowledge that Palestinians deserve human rights, which is exactly why the non-violent option already failed multiple times.

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